# Bridge collapse in Baltimore {2024-03-26} **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [March 26, 2024, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372 "2024-03-26T08:11:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/161 "2024-03-26T22:49:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The bridge [was constructed](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_(Baltimore)) between 1972-77. 5 years. I imagine urgency to reopen the port will see the replacement go up quicker. I’m wondering if there are any parts of the bridge that can be used in the rebuilding, such as the ramps leading up to the span that _appear_ intact (thought they might well have damage) and anchors for the pylons, or one of them at any rate. Well, in the end it’s all up to the engineers. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/162 "2024-03-26T22:57:57Z")
My understanding was that federal will front the costs, rather than waiting for insurance monies to kick in. Federal funds would be immediate, insurance would take quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/163 "2024-03-26T23:18:53Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Regarding the Cargo ship, it should say "I know it has **NOT** sunk, but is it sinking? The bow of the ship is beached on the bridge abutment. The rest of the ship would be compartmentalized to prevent sinking. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/164 "2024-03-26T23:31:05Z")
They said the ship lost power and it made me wonder why it steered into the bridge. It may have been a function of throwing it into reverse which then pulled the bow around to the right. Just a wag at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2024, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/165 "2024-03-26T23:47:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They said the ship lost power and it made me wonder why it steered into the bridge. You can clearly see the ship lose power, regain power and lose power again in the video below. You also can see thick black smoke belching from the smokestack (engine restart? fire? I have no idea) before it hits the bridge. I am guessing the ship just had a little momentum to starboard when it lost power and could not correct for it. As others have mentioned in this thread, these ships have a massive amount of momentum even when going slow. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JebyNOvJmCM/maxresdefault.jpg "RAW: Cargo ship loses power, crashes into the Baltimore Bridge") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JebyNOvJmCM) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/166 "2024-03-27T00:02:08Z")
> [@robby](#): > > > [@Jasmine](#): > > > > > [@BobLibDem](#): > > > > > > apparently the momentum of this ship far exceeded the design of the pier protection and it took out the pier and the spans it supported with ease. > > > > Oh, yeah! F = MA. Even if the acceleration is only, say 5 MPH, the incredible mass of a ship that large times an acceleration even that small produces an irresistible force. > > Nitpick from a former physics instructor: Acceleration is not measured in miles per hour. That is a unit for speed or velocity. > > The product of mass and velocity is _momentum_. So like @BobLibDem said, you could indeed properly say that the massive ship, even with a relatively low speed, still had a lot of momentum. Actually, a bit of a nitpick on the nitpick. The velocity of the ship has nothing to do with acceleration, of course. But it definitely comes into play in terms of the dynamics of the impact. There’s a negative acceleration that occurs during the impact, in which velocity goes very quickly from whatever few knots it was to zero. The time that takes is a measure of acceleration. That’s the basis of “crumple zones” to add protection in the case of vehicle crashes. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/167 "2024-03-27T00:18:19Z")
Well said. A lot of momentum and a lot of force needed to decelerate the ship from even 5 mph down to zero due to the large mass. The pier never had a chance. Not sure what the pier protection was but if it was pile clusters it would have snapped like a twig. ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/168 "2024-03-27T00:27:14Z")
So I work at WUSA TV in Washington DC the CBS affiliate. Woke up a little early around 6am, looked at my phone and just drove to work. Got home a couple minutes ago. There’s scanner audio of the MD Transportation Authority Police getting word of the ship having lost power, shutting down traffic about a minute before the collision but couldn’t get the construction crew off the bridge in time. The officer who saw the bridge come down was heartbreaking on the radio. [Here’s the audio link](https://youtu.be/RkjZImSG7j4?si=lKCrzOMgc7U9g5tM) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/169 "2024-03-27T00:28:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The pier never had a chance. Not sure what the pier protection was but if it was pile clusters it would have snapped like a twig. Indeed…the pier never had a chance against a ship like that. [![](https://i0.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/20210729-DJI_0402-Edit.jpg) ](https://i0.wp.com/bridgestunnels.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/20210729-DJI_0402-Edit.jpg) For comparison here is a Golden Gate pier (and I doubt that would be enough): [![](https://live.staticflickr.com/17/19620184_103c3c9570_b.jpg) ](https://live.staticflickr.com/17/19620184_103c3c9570_b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/170 "2024-03-27T01:07:18Z")
Washington Post [reports](https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/03/26/baltimore-key-bridge-collapse-maryland/#link-KBRPS47V6FADVFTXW522ZHBVNQ): > [@](#): > > When the Dali lost power, the pilot guiding the ship out of the Port of Baltimore ordered its rudder turned hard to the left side and its left anchor dropped in an effort to slow the vessel and stop it from swinging to the right, according to the head of a national association for ship pilots. I’ll be curious to hear what was causing it to turn. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/171 "2024-03-27T01:22:21Z")
It could have been the Golden Gate, or the Verrazano Narrows bridge. I’m thinking there should be a review of the piers and the protection to those piers on all major bridges spanning sea lanes. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/172 "2024-03-27T01:33:03Z")
> [@andrewm](#): > > I’ll be curious to hear what was causing it to turn. If it’s ruddered to steer hard left and the props are reversed without changing the rudder that would turn the boat to the right. Did the loss of power affect rudder control? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/173 "2024-03-27T01:35:04Z")
> [@K364](#): > > It could have been the Golden Gate, or the Verrazano Narrows bridge. I’m thinking there should be a review of the piers and the protection to those piers on all major bridges spanning sea lanes. Or possibly tug them through. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/174 "2024-03-27T01:37:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If it’s ruddered to steer hard left and the props are reversed without changing the rudder that would turn the boat to the right. Would it? If the ship was moving in reverse then sure. But the ship was still moving forward. Will the propellers in reverse draw water backwards over the rudder and give you a reverse effect to steering or is it the ship direction that matters (forward or backward) that tells us how it would steer? I honestly have no idea. This would be good for a Mythbusters episode (and I think it may be different from, say, a small boat with an outboard motor and a ship with a rudder). ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/175 "2024-03-27T01:40:01Z")
The wording of the quote implied that it was already turning right for some reason before they steered hard left, and doesn’t mention reversing. ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/176 "2024-03-27T01:57:54Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But the ship was still moving forward. Will the propellers in reverse draw water backwards over the rudder and give you a reverse effect to steering or is it the ship direction that matters (forward or backward) that tells us how it would steer? Right, it was still doing about 7 knots forward through the water up until when it hit, so if the rudder was actually moving according to commands, so steering should not have been reversed. If they did put the prop in reverse and it worsened the turn, that may turn out to have been a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/177 "2024-03-27T02:04:21Z")
WAG: If we pretend the ship had no problems then it would have probably steered itself as it should under the bridge with no problem. I can only assume steering was broken. The rudder did not move as commanded for whatever reason (I’m guessing that power outage). If the steering worked I’d think it would have steered clear. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/178 "2024-03-27T02:11:52Z")
I thought I’d heard it was in full reverse but I can’t verify it beyond speculation due to the amount of smoke coming from the stack. If the smoke is an indication of intense power production then it might be an indication of full reverse. Don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/179 "2024-03-27T03:42:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > You are correct that Europe in general and Denmark specifically has rigorous maintenance and training standards for commercial vessels operating in their domains. Thanks for letting me know that I’m correct. One of us has been working in shipping (marine casualties in particular) for 34 years. However, it’s not really about “domains”. The European owners are operating worldwide, well outside of their “domains”. It’s not even really about Danish or European legally imposed standards - it’s substantially simply company culture. Maersk for example flags out much of its fleet but imposes high standards regardless because that’s the Maersk way. Then there are other European owned lines who flag out and whose ships are questionable. > [@robby](#): > > For what it’s worth, when I was in the U.S. Navy serving on submarines, we always had an escort tug until we were safely out of the channel and in unrestricted waters. It was convenient because we could simultaneously drop off the pilot on the tug. When returning to port, the escort tug met us and also brought the pilot out to us. > > It was either a “belt and suspenders” practice, or may have also been because we had only a single main propellor, so if we lost propulsion in restricted waters with little room to maneuver, we had no real backup. Also nuclear submarines are expensive You had your answer at “nuclear”. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > You need to use the rudder to counteract prop walk on a single screw ship. (But, again, even on a twin screw ship with counter-rotating propellers, you will need to make fine adjustments of the rudder to keep going straight, even on a perfect calm). Most vessels are a right hand screw which will walk the stern to port (causing a turn to starboard) when going astern. I’m a bit dubious about this being relevant though because from what I’ve seen of the track, the turn to starboard was early and definite, and the vessel then stayed almost straight, into the bridge pylon. If the starboard turn had been due to the vessel going hard astern, I wouldn’t expect it to have happened so early, and would have expected the vessel to make a gradual but continuous turn to starboard. Dropping the port anchor would usually cause a turn to port, which is opposite to what happened. Funny things can happen to steering as power is lost. I suspect that either the power loss caused the steering to go to starboard or the ship just happened to be making a slight correction to starboard at the moment the power loss occured. > [@notfrommensa](#): > > I have seen some but all of the news reports, one question I haven’t seen asked is about the condition of the cargo ship. I know it has [not] sunk, but is it sinking (albeit slowly). Has the structure integrity been compromise. Almost certainly not. Full frontal collisions are one of the least likely to result in loss of a vessel. The first bulkhead (wall) aft of the bow is called the “collision bulkhead” and is designed to keep the vessel’s watertight integrity even if the bow is compromised. The vessel will have ample reserve buoyancy over its length, even if the forwardmost areas have suffered flooding. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372/180 "2024-03-27T05:01:47Z")
I get a daily emailed newsletter from Bloomberg and they sent out a special edition bridge collapse email talking about all the likely economic consequences. I’m not going to quote it since I’m sure it’s extensive and all copyrighted, but if you Google “Bloomberg bridge collapse analysis” you’ll get hits on several articles examining the knock-on effects. Yes, sorry not sorry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-collapse-in-baltimore-2024-03-26/999372.md?page=10)