# Bridge on the River Kwai **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848 "2013-08-22T02:18:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/21 "2013-08-22T21:11:26Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > And in case an earworm didn’t penetrate your skull upon reading the title of this thread, [here you go.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bmsluWHZc) Of course, the reason why they whistled it was because the words were dirty. My father, who served in the Navy in the Pacific during the war, used to sing the dirty version to us. > [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > but most of all seeing Guinness go limp and faint like a woman and fall _right onto the detonator!_ He doesn’t faint. He’s been mortally wounded by the mortar fire. He uses his last strength to deliberately fall on the detonator to destroy the bridge and atone for his mistake. Or at least, that’s how I’ve always read the scene. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/22 "2013-08-22T21:16:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Of course, the reason why they whistled it was because the words were dirty. > > My father, who served in the Navy in the Pacific during the war, used to sing the dirty version to us. > > He doesn’t faint. He’s been mortally wounded by the mortar fire. He uses his last strength to deliberately fall on the detonator to destroy the bridge and atone for his mistake. Or at least, that’s how I’ve always read the scene. This is how I read the scene too. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/23 "2013-08-22T21:28:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Of course, the reason why they whistled it was because the words were dirty. > > My father, who served in the Navy in the Pacific during the war, used to sing the dirty version to us. Wiki doesn’t mention any lyrics… are they “official”? > **[Colonel Bogey March](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Bogey_March)** > > The "Colonel Bogey March" is a British march that was composed in 1914 by Lieutenant F. J. Ricketts (1881–1945) (pen name Kenneth J. Alford), a British Army bandmaster who later became the director of music for the Royal Marines at Plymouth. The march is often whistled. During the Second World War, British soldiers sang the lyrics "Hitler Has Only Got One Ball" to accompany the tune. > The march first appeared in film when it was hummed by Michael Redgrave in Alfred Hitchcock's The Lady Vanishes... ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/24 "2013-08-22T22:30:06Z")
> [@eenerms](#): > > This is how I read the scene too. Me, too. Doesn’t he actually stagger a bit, getting closer to the detonator? To me, that shows his soldier training winning out at the end. The best part of that scene, tho (imho), is his face when he recognizes Holden’s character as the Bloody American who escaped. The look on his face manages to show recognition, awareness of his own foolishness, amazement at that bloody American’s bravery in coming back, and even of the whole big picture of the War and each man’s small part in it, and then his determination to not make his part insignificant. Obviously, I could be reading all that into his facial expression because of what brought me as a viewer of the film to that point. Either way, good scene, good film. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/25 "2013-08-22T22:55:26Z")
Did nPierre Boulez really write it? Or was it Dalton Trumbo? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/26 "2013-08-22T22:58:32Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Wiki doesn’t mention any lyrics… are they “official”? The tune dates to 1914. According Wiki, the [original version](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Has_Only_Got_One_Ball) of the “Nazi balls song” from 1939, which was sung to that tune, went: _Göring has only got one ball Hitler’s [are] so very small Himmler’s so very similar And Goebbels has no balls at all_ The version my father sang in the 1950s was similar to the Variant 1 they list, and went: _Hitler, he only had one ball, Goring, had two but ve-ry small, Himmler, his balls were sim’lar, And Goebbels, had no balls, at all._ Wiki also says: > [@](#): > > The lyrics were not sung during the famous Colonel Bogey March sequence in the 1957 film The Bridge on the River Kwai (as opposed to the melody being heard) because they were considered to be too vulgar ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/27 "2013-08-22T23:04:18Z")
Is there any truth to the story at all? Any? None? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/28 "2013-08-22T23:10:42Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Me, too. Doesn’t he actually stagger a bit, getting closer to the detonator? To me, that shows his soldier training winning out at the end. Yes. He says “What have I done?” in dismay, and then starts toward the detonator. He’s injured by shrapnel, then gets to his feet, staggers toward the detonator again (after picking up his hat!), and then falls directly on the plunger. It’s clearly no accident. [Here’s the scene.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHVMi3LxZE) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/29 "2013-08-22T23:46:45Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > Excellent movie. It and _The Great Escape_ are probably the best of their era. They could hardly be more different, in a way. Sqn. Ldr. Bartlett in _The Great Escape_ took it as his duty to confound the enemy in any way possible, and used that mission to unite his men and give them a purpose. Col. Nicholson took the opposite approach, but for the same reason. Both films had James Donald in quite a similar role, as a voice of moderation to the leader’s single-mindedness. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/30 "2013-08-23T00:09:58Z")
Both _Bridge on the River Kwai_ and _The Great Escape_ are fantastic movies. Fictionalized of course, but still favorites to watch. But I preferred William Holden in _Stalag 17_. My favorite single scene in that is where the almost catatonic POW smiles, the only time in the whole film he shows any human feelings. This is when the other POW’s beat up Peter Graves, after finding out he’s the real snitch amongst them ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/31 "2013-08-23T00:30:45Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Yes. He says “What have I done?” in dismay, and then starts toward the detonator. He’s injured by shrapnel, then gets to his feet, staggers toward the detonator again (after picking up his hat!), and then falls directly on the plunger. It’s clearly no accident. > > [Here’s the scene.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHVMi3LxZE) Thanks. Yep, not a fainting spell accident. End act of a complex character. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/32 "2013-08-23T01:18:44Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Is there any truth to the story at all? Any? None? Fictional, based on a novel inspired by real life events. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/33 "2013-08-23T01:28:05Z")
The cheery, unquestioning Tommies marching to peppy music, the pompous, pig-headed commander…I sometimes think this is a movie using WWII as a cover for exploring the issues of WWI (which nobody had the temerity to do until “Oh What A Lovely War” hit the stage in the early sixties) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/34 "2013-08-23T01:38:08Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Is there any truth to the story at all? Any? None? A bridge (actually two bridges) really was built by Allied prisoners of war. As for the rest, [Wiki says](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_on_the_River_Kwai): > [@](#): > > The incidents portrayed in the film are mostly fictional, and though it depicts bad conditions and suffering caused by the building of the Burma Railway and its bridges, historically the conditions were much worse than depicted.[5] The real senior Allied officer at the bridge was British Lieutenant Colonel Philip Toosey. Some consider the film to be an insulting parody of Toosey.[6] On a BBC Timewatch programme, a former prisoner at the camp states that it is unlikely that a man like the fictional Nicholson could have risen to the rank of lieutenant colonel; and if he had, due to his collaboration he would have been “quietly eliminated” by the other prisoners. Julie Summers, in her book The Colonel of Tamarkan, writes that Pierre Boulle, who had been a prisoner of war in Thailand, created the fictional Nicholson character as an amalgam of his memories of collaborating French officers.[6] He strongly denied the claim that the book was anti-British, though many involved in the film itself (including Alec Guinness) felt otherwise.[7] > > Toosey was very different from Nicholson and was certainly not a collaborator who felt obliged to work with the Japanese. Toosey in fact did as much to delay the building of the bridge as possible. Whereas Nicholson disapproves of acts of sabotage and other deliberate attempts to delay progress, Toosey encouraged this: termites were collected in large numbers to eat the wooden structures, and the concrete was badly mixed.[6][8] ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/35 "2013-08-23T01:48:09Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > The cheery, unquestioning Tommies marching to peppy music, the pompous, pig-headed commander…I sometimes think this is a movie using WWII as a cover for exploring the issues of WWI (which nobody had the temerity to do until “Oh What A Lovely War” hit the stage in the early sixties) The antiwar [Paths of Glory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paths_of_Glory), which came out the same year as _Kwai_, was actually set during WWI. Back in 1930 [All Quiet on the Western Front](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Quiet_on_the_Western_Front_(1930_film)) looked at the war on the German side. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/36 "2013-08-23T02:39:26Z")
And when was Paths of Glory finally allowed to be shown in France? True, anti-WWI sentiment goes back perhaps even before WWI, when the British intelligentsia opposed the Boer War, and the Bloomsbury set were mocking the military establishment. It held sway in the war’s aftermath in literature, but not on the screen. It never went mainstream until the war’s raised memory at its 50-year anniversary coincided with the sixties zeitgeist. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/37 "2013-08-23T02:52:32Z")
I’ve read the novel that the movie _Bridge On The River Kwai_ is based on, and it’s pretty good (and mirrors the movie…to a point). Let’s just say that the book’s ending is a wee bit different than the movie’s. 😉 Oh, and the movie is one of my all-time favorites (I’ve seen all or parts of it more than any other film) and it’s a big reason why William Holden and Alec Guinness are two of my all-time favorite actors. Holden was terrific at playing sleazy and egotistical characters who are ultimately likeable despite their flaws. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/38 "2013-08-23T02:58:51Z")
And in case you don’t want to read the book to find out the ending: The colonel foils the commando plot, and the bridge doesn’t blow up. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/39 "2013-08-23T03:06:42Z")
[The real Bridge on the River Kwai](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bridge_over_River_Kwai.jpg) is here in Thailand, in Kanchanaburi province bordering Burma. I have visited it. The book (unread by me) and film are of course fictionalized. Forgive me if this has been mentioned upthread. but I recall that in real-life, only one POW ever escaped, a Briton, and he never returned leading a raiding party. The bridge was finally taken out by aerial bombing at the very tail end of the war. Some historical parallels can be seen [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_on_the_river_kwai#Historical_parallels). Some of the survivors ended up settling in the area, I believe. And there used to be an annual get-together on site for all survivors, but sadly their ranks have thinned. I’m not sure if there even are any left today, but certainly no more than a couple if so. The book and film are responsible for the place being mispronounced. Many transliterations use Khwae or Kwae, and the correct pronunciation is like the English word “quack” but without the “-ck” sound at the end. The town of Kanchanaburi, the capital city of Kanchanaburi province and where the bridge is located, is a pleasant place in which to while away a weekend. There’s a small Allied POW cemetery in town that gets a lot of visitors and an even smaller one on the other side of the river out of town or at least on the edge that most tourists seem unaware of. It’s also a good base to explore the rest of the province. It remains rather “jungly,” and there are some very pretty national parks and stunning waterfalls including the seven-tiered [Erawan Falls](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erawan_Waterfall). But be warned: Don’t stay down by the section of river that houses several large party rafts. Having bribed local officials to look away while they violate every noise ordinance known to man, they blare out disco beats until cock crow. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848/40 "2013-08-23T04:30:12Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Did nPierre Boulez really write it? Or was it Dalton Trumbo? Boulle did not speak a lick of English but got screenwriting credit (and the Oscar!) because two blacklisted writers wrote the film–not Trumbo, but Michael Wilson and Carl Foreman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridge-on-the-river-kwai/666848.md?page=3)