# Bridging the great divide (partisan politics) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridging-the-great-divide-partisan-politics/768347 "2016-10-12T18:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridging-the-great-divide-partisan-politics/768347/61 "2016-10-24T14:30:53Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Part of ending “partisan” politics is being honest about where the partisanship is coming from. The Republican party has devoted itself to not passing any legislature from the Democratic President and not working with the Democratic side in Congress. The Republicans have also started refusing to move on Democratically appointed judges. > > Refusing to criticize the Republican Party for their toxic partisanship is not solving the partisanship problem. It’s just papering over Republican partisanship and rewarding them for their bad behavior. Toxic partisanship won’t go away until the public makes it clear to the partisans that their behavior needs to stop. > > “Both sides are equally to blame” is false. Insisting that we cling to a falsity in fear of being called “partisan” makes the partisanship problem, worse. I’m not sure that blaming Republicans exclusively for the ills of partisanship is a good way to end partisanship. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridging-the-great-divide-partisan-politics/768347/62 "2016-10-26T22:31:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This whole “we need to stop politicians from doing so many things” represents a buy-in to 40 years of right-wing propaganda denouncing politicians as a whole and government as a whole for doing anything. > > It assumes that legislative action ought to be deemed “bad” as a default, which is a stupid position to take in a modern, complex world and economy. It makes people think that “punishing” politicians with things like term limits and balanced budget amendments and line-item vetoes and supermajority requirements actually accomplishes something good, when all it is is an exercise of revenge against a phantom menace. > > Government does stuff every day that needs to be done every day… Post snipped. You do realize that the problem is with your last statement. Yes, the government does stuff every day. The argument is over what needs to be done every day. While the government does good stuff every day, it also does stupid/bad/unproductive/downright negative stuff everyday as well. A big problem with government, as far as I can tell, is that once a program starts it is nearly impossible to stop it, no matter how ineffective or costly the program turns out to be in real life. If there were an effective way to roll back bad policy I suspect that there would be a whole lot less people bitching about the government doing too much. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridging-the-great-divide-partisan-politics/768347/63 "2016-10-26T23:56:20Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Post snipped. > > You do realize that the problem is with your last statement. Yes, the government does stuff every day. The argument is over what needs to be done every day. While the government does good stuff every day, it also does stupid/bad/unproductive/downright negative stuff everyday as well. Assuming that passing legislation is more likely than not passing legislation to result in bad actions is fallacious. It’s also petulant and ignorant to think that making it harder for the government to do things is likely to produce more good outcomes than bad ones. As for disagreements over what is good and what is bad, that will never end. That’s what majority rule and political compromise is meant to handle. The mature view of government is that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. You don’t put shackles on policy makers in order to avoid being on the losing side. > [@](#): > > A big problem with government, as far as I can tell, is that once a program starts it is nearly impossible to stop it, no matter how ineffective or costly the program turns out to be in real life. What proportion of government funding do you surmise is ineffective and also cripplingly costly? It’s much, much less than you think. The vast majority of the time when people are complaining about “waste” along these lines it is either “I don’t like the people this program benefits” or a failure to understand the value of basic research. As for programs that really are wasteful to a significant degree, there’s really only one culprit there and that’s the military. If the public were to take a more critical view of military expenditures as opposed to the usual flag-waving idiocy, they might find a lot more money being spent on beneficial programs. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridging-the-great-divide-partisan-politics/768347/64 "2016-10-27T08:45:46Z")
How to bridge the great divide of partisan politics? Reducing ignorance would be a good step! Many Americans have only a vague knowledge of where their tax dollars go. > [@sleestak](#): > > … Yes, the government does stuff every day. The argument is over what needs to be done every day. While the government does good stuff every day, it also does stupid/bad/unproductive/downright negative stuff everyday as well. > > A big problem with government, as far as I can tell, is that once a program starts it is nearly impossible to stop it, no matter how ineffective or costly the program turns out to be in real life. Let me echo **Acsenray** ’s comments and ask you for specific examples of ineffective costly programs. Much government spending moves income from one private individual to another. You may not approve of how Uncle George spends his Social Security check, but that’s _his_ money _he_’s spending, not the government’s. It’s money he’s _entitled_ to, not because he’s an uppity freeloader (even the word “entitlement” has been confused by partisan rhetoric) but because he contributed to it in each paycheck, making a covenant with a pension organization (that just happens to be operated by the federal government). The Department of Education is frequently cited as money-waster. Are we all aware that much less than 1% of E.D.'s budget goes for federal salaries? Instead Pell Grants and Title I grants for local schools are the two largest items in the ED budget, together making up much more than half of the total. These are programs that effectively transfer money from [del]rich taxpayers[/del] Chinese and Japanese buyers of U.S. bonds to disadvantaged Americans seeking education. Condemn these programs as Marxist if you wish, but do you have a cite that these grants are “ineffective”? ESEA has strong bipartisan support; reauthorizing it was the centerpiece of Bush-43’s No Child Left Behind Act. Et cetera, et cetera. I could go through the big budget items one-by-one looking for the “costly and ineffective” programs but it would be batter to hear from you. **sleestak** , can you enlighten us? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bridging-the-great-divide-partisan-politics/768347.md?page=3)