# Bring back the draft
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [November 19, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064 "2006-11-19T20:59:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/21 "2006-11-20T00:14:36Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy]
The flip side of a draft is that if most or all young adults are subject to military service, they’re going to want a say in just what military actions our country commits to. In a sense, bringing back the draft would be a great way to NOT fight wars. That’s the whole point of having a democracy based on citizen-soldiers: that you aren’t going to have a large army at the government’s beck and call unless there is broad public support for going to war.
[/QUOTE]
The Vietnam war ended shortly before I was born, but I don’t recall learning that the strong opinions of the draftable made a whole lot of difference. Or are you suggesting that the young men who would now be drafted would somehow be more vocal and proactive than the young men of my father’s generation? Because I don’t see that happening. Especially considering there are so many fewer these days than there were in the 60s and 70s.
I pretty much agree with Red Barchetta. However, wars on US soil would be a different matter since people actually would need to fight “for America’s freedom” in such a case.
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/22 "2006-11-20T00:22:29Z")
[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
No, a draft is NEVER acceptable. If one were to be, our “freedom” would be compromised, and as far as I’m concerned, we’d have already lost the war.
[/QUOTE]
What about during the Civil War? World War 1? What about WW2 after the Japanese attack?
**1. Should they bring back the draft? Why or why not.**
I’d be for it. I can’t think of a single thing that would make my generation actually care about politics more than the prospect of getting shipped overseas. But, like others have said, I believe women ought to be drafted right along with men- it’s only fair if we want to equality in society.
**2. If the draft is brought back and you or your child was of eligible age would you (or your child) serve if called or leave the country? Why or why not.**
I would serve. Actually, if there was a draft and I knew there was a decent chance I’d get called, I’d just enlist (you’re generally better off that way). I know I wouldn’t be much help as far as shooting and killing, but I imagine my brain could actually be used in various ways. I’d be especially ok wit this if I was drafted to a war that I agreed with (whatever war that would be)- as I would feel I was helping my nation.
**3. If the draft provided an option to serve in a non-military role (airport or shipping security, teaching, medical), would you (or your child) choose that option instead of military service? Why or why not.**
It’s neither here nor there for me. It depends on the war. It depends on what I’d be doing. Like I said, my round ass isn’t exactly cut out to be a grunt, but I could be some sort of tech person or maybe some type of engineer in the military or civilian world.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/23 "2006-11-20T00:28:58Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
I’d be for it. I can’t think of a single thing that would make my generation actually care about politics more than the prospect of getting shipped overseas. But, like others have said, I believe women ought to be drafted right along with men- it’s only fair if we want to equality in society.
[/QUOTE]
Can you give me a rough estimate of how many deaths are OK in order to make people care about politics?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/24 "2006-11-20T00:32:58Z")
You know what, I’m sorry- this is IMHO and the thread is probably intended as a poll. I always lose track of that.
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### Author:  [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/25 "2006-11-20T00:33:59Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima]
What about during the Civil War? World War 1? What about WW2 after the Japanese attack?
[/QUOTE]
They were inappropriate then too. As I said, enslaving residents of one’s own country compromise our core values.
I’d rather our country be defeated in war without forcing anyone to do something against their will.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/26 "2006-11-20T00:46:00Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23]
You know what, I’m sorry- this is IMHO and the thread is probably intended as a poll. I always lose track of that.
[/QUOTE]
I’ll accept some debate in here, due to the OP’s second sentence.
I _almost_ moved this to GD.
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### Author:  [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/27 "2006-11-20T00:46:40Z")
I’m in favour when I see teenaged punks hanging around the streets at night drinking, fighting, and vandalising railway stations. Some of them just have no idea, and don’t know what responsibility or real problems are. I think military service would straighten a lot of them right out and make them decent young guys.
That said, in the cold light of morning I’m opposed to the idea. There are a lot of kids who just wouldn’t be able to cope. I might have been one of them. And what about that effeminate fat boy with asthma that was in my class (he was probably in yours too)? For some people it would be a terrible thing.
Still, the “boot camp” mindset is one I have a certain sympathy for. I like the idea of giving judges the right to allow young offenders to choose to go to one rather than other punishments.
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### Author:  [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/28 "2006-11-20T00:47:32Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy]
The flip side of a draft is that if most or all young adults are subject to military service, they’re going to want a say in just what military actions our country commits to. In a sense, bringing back the draft would be a great way to NOT fight wars. That’s the whole point of having a democracy based on citizen-soldiers: that you aren’t going to have a large army at the government’s beck and call unless there is broad public support for going to war.
The public tolerated the draft during the 50s when it largely meant garrison duty overseas during the Cold War (and the Korean War got old very fast; people were grumbling, loudly, after only two years.) Vietnam showed that you can have a draft, or a commitment to an endless undeclared war, but not both. If anyone in Washington imagines that they could bring back the draft and still have a quasi-imperial policy of undeclared unpopular wars, they’re trippin’. I can just hear the protesters’ chant now: “We Won’t Die for Bush’s Lie!”
[/QUOTE]
But it would be too late for the citizens already drafted. Sure it might help the next group when you are old enough to vote you are already registered for the draft.
Imagine a war was going on (what a shock! That could never happen!) An 18 year old registers on his birthday which fortunately falls right before a presidential election. He votes against the current administration. But it’s too late! His number is called and he is off for training and eventual deployment to Crapistan. So he is serving overseas, getting his ass shot at while the president he voted in is trying to get the troops out. He can’t win.
And as for “having a say”, you have no choice. Back up to 9/11 and, instead of going to Iraq we went first to Afghanistan because of the Taliban and then went after Saudi Arabia because the hijackers and OBL came from there and their brand of fanaticism stems from there. The government declares war. You registered, you go to the desert. If there is no draft, the government makes do with the troops it has and they go to the desert. Do you really think that if a real dove of a President was in office he would just say, “Shit happens”? He would be out on his ass in a flash.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/29 "2006-11-20T00:51:17Z")
[QUOTE=Frank]
I’ll accept some debate in here, due to the OP’s second sentence.
I _almost_ moved this to GD.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the clarification, **Frank**. In that case I would very much like an answer to my question.
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### Author:  [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/30 "2006-11-20T00:56:12Z")
Isn’t the actual draft mechanism still in place? Even though there’s currently no active draft, do they still conduct the lottery just in case something serious enough would happen that required reactivation? Isn’t that why we also still have draft registration?
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/31 "2006-11-20T01:04:58Z")
[QUOTE=flickster]
Isn’t the actual draft mechanism still in place? Even though there’s currently no active draft, do they still conduct the lottery just in case something serious enough would happen that required reactivation? Isn’t that why we also still have draft registration?
[/QUOTE]
They require registration only at this time. There’s no lottery or anything happening; only acquiring a list of names. (Men only - women are not required to register.)
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/32 "2006-11-20T02:25:18Z")
Rangel’s point is this: the volunteer army tends toward the poor and to certain areas of the country where military service is considered important. But there are millions of middle and upper class Americans who aren’t interested. When we send troops into combat, it’s not the sons and daughters of the average American that are being put into harm’s way.
If the draft were reinstituted, they would be. And many of the people who support war because it won’t affect them or their children now are being put in harm’s way. If it’s your child who might be killed in a war, you’re going to think about it differently than if it’s someone else’s kid.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/33 "2006-11-20T02:54:56Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
Rangel’s point is this: the volunteer army tends toward the poor and to certain areas of the country where military service is considered important. But there are millions of middle and upper class Americans who aren’t interested. When we send troops into combat, it’s not the sons and daughters of the average American that are being put into harm’s way.
If the draft were reinstituted, they would be. And many of the people who support war because it won’t affect them or their children now are being put in harm’s way. If it’s your child who might be killed in a war, you’re going to think about it differently than if it’s someone else’s kid.
[/QUOTE]
Only if we can have an effective mechanism to make sure EVERYBODY’s children ARE equally as likely to end up as infantrymen eating dirt and bullets in the front line. IOW a system geared to produce no more Dan Quayles or WJ Clintons. And how likely is that?
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/34 "2006-11-20T03:06:08Z")
[QUOTE=JRDelirious]
Only if we can have an effective mechanism to make sure EVERYBODY’s children ARE equally as likely to end up as infantrymen eating dirt and bullets in the front line. IOW a system geared to produce no more Dan Quayles or WJ Clintons. And how likely is that?
[/QUOTE]
Not to mention George
W. Bushes. But, you’re right, it’s not all that likely.
It’s primarily a rhetorical point that the people pushing the war are disconnected from the sacrifices involved in fighting it. People find it much easier to send other people’s children to die than their own.
And even if the rich can find ways out, if more of the middle class had their kids in danger, there would have to be a much stronger rationale for any decision to fight.
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### Author:  [@The\_Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Octagon)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/35 "2006-11-20T03:17:13Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23]
Can you give me a rough estimate of how many deaths are OK in order to make people care about politics?
[/QUOTE]
Ditto. I’d rather my generation be politically ignorant than dead.
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### Author:  [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/36 "2006-11-20T03:30:23Z")
[QUOTE=The Octagon]
Ditto. I’d rather my generation be politically ignorant than dead.
[/QUOTE]
I’m confused about something…is there an assumption that if there is a draft, that will lead to more people dying in wars? I’m not for a draft, myself, but I don’t see how or why more people would be dead than otherwise. They used to have the draft during peacetime. No one died, at least not in combat. A draft may lead to people dying who didn’t want to go in the first place, but it doesn’t mean the numbers will be larger.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/37 "2006-11-20T03:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=erie774]
Anyway, real simple questions here:
[/QUOTE]
1. Should they bring back the draft? Why or why not.
I volunteered for the Navy in 1984. I am a hawk and a Republican. I strongly believe in maintaining a strong military. I do not believe you achieve a strong military via the draft. You establish a strong military by establishing a powerful Esprit de Corp. You do everything reasonable to protect your volunteer military personnel. You get them the best equipment and plenty of it. You use your military in honorable pursuits. I believe Reagan’s military build up accomplished these goals very well.
I do not believe a draft to man an unpopular war that was started for a very questionable reason is acceptable. If the country was in real and direct danger or if our allies needed our help, I could see a draft being brought back. I do not believe we are in such a situation at this time.
2. If the draft is brought back and you or your child was of eligible age would you (or your child) serve if called or leave the country? Why or why not.
If a draft was brought back for this war I would try to avoid and advise my nephew and niece who are in the prime age brackets to avoid it. My kids are far too young.
If the country was in danger or if England or Canada was in danger and I could be of some use, I would be willing to serve in any capacity the Navy required. I would strongly support my niece, an RN going in to be a military nurse and an officer. I would still try to discourage my nephew from infantry, but I would encourage him to join and serve. I would probably recommend he try to get into the Air Force.
1. If the draft provided an option to serve in a non-military role (airport or shipping security, teaching, medical), would you (or your child) choose that option instead of military service? Why or why not.
See my prior answers. I think I covered my choices.
Jim {Age 40; Electrician Mate 3rd Class when I left the service after my four year enlistment.}
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/38 "2006-11-20T03:42:23Z")
Start the draft. We should have started it on 12 September 2001. Had we done so, we would not be in the mess we are now in.
We are, all the Talking Heads tell us, in WW3. OK, so let’s act like it.
No more SUVs, no more Bridges to Nowhere, no more tax breaks. And a draft.
Unless of course we are not serious.
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### Author:  [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/39 "2006-11-20T03:43:29Z")
[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
They were inappropriate then too. As I said, enslaving residents of one’s own country compromise our core values.
[/quote]
There’s no “enslaving” about it. They’re trained and paid. And, although the 13th Amendment prohibits slavery and involuntary servitude, the Supreme Court, as I understand it (Butler v. Perry, 240 U.S. 328 (1916) and Arver v. United States, 245 U.S. 366 (1918). , 240 U.S. 328 (1916) and , 245 U.S. 366 (1918). , 240 U.S. 328 (1916) and , 245 U.S. 366 (1918)) doesn’t view conscription as either. Of course, it hasn’t been tried before the court recently, so who knows?
So, no, it is not enslavement.
> [@](#):
>
> I’d rather our country be defeated in war without forcing anyone to do something against their will.
Truly a pit-worthy statement, but I won’t go there. I’d just ask you to imagine what the country that defeated us might want you to do–and if it might be something against your will.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-back-the-draft/381064/40 "2006-11-20T04:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=erie774]
1. Should they bring back the draft? Why or why not.
[/QUOTE]
No way in hell. The worst thing you can do to a military is fill it with people who didn’t want to be there in the first place and will look for any excuse to get out. Not to mention it’s akin to state slavery. And it could never be fair. The children of the wealth and well connected will always have an easier time getting out of it then the common folk.
[QUOTE=erie774]
2. If the draft is brought back and you or your child was of eligible age would you (or your child) serve if called or leave the country? Why or why not.
[/QUOTE]
I’m 21; well with draftable age. I’m also gay, have 20/220 vision, can barely see at night, suffered from epilepsy as a child, had my kneecap replaced earlier this year, and get migraines. For me to be drafted the military would need to be truly desperate. Now if the US was actually in danger of invasion (ala UK in WWII) I _might_ serve. For something like Iraq, Vietnam, or Korea no way. I mentioned I’m gay. For me to be willing to serve in the military my partner would need to have every right, benefit, etc, currently given to heterosexual couples (including the option of being joined by a military chaplain and having a honor guard). I would not serve any government that treated me like a second-class citizen. If I had to I would flee the country, go into hiding, or render myself unit for service.
[QUOTE=erie774]
3. If the draft provided an option to serve in a non-military role (airport or shipping security, teaching, medical), would you (or your child) choose that option instead of military service? Why or why not..
[/QUOTE]
No. I’d still be supporting a war effort I might not agree with.
Also any draft would need to include women as well as men. Mothers too. If a new father can be drafted then so can a mother as soon she’s given birth. Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell would become completely unworkable. And if the draft was reinstated how long would it take for it too actually effect the size of the military? SSS claims they could deliver conscripts for induction withing six months, but how much resistance are they expecting?
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