Come on, we had draft boards for how many years? During that time you don’t think there were a few people who tried to scam the system. However, if someone was not fit for military service, put them into a national service program to fulfill their national obligation. They could teach, work in hospitals, maybe start some New Deal type programs where we fix up the f’d up highway system. I’m not saying give them a free ticket home. And if they are so screwed up that they can’t handle any other obligation, then let them go.
I know that Israel used to have a mandatory conscription with some variances made for ultra-Orthodox Jews. It even included women. I’m not sure if it is still in effect but I thought that it had worked out pretty good for them. Maybe one of our Israeli Dopers can provide some insight.
Your statement “Or tell your CO you’re a big fag.” Reminded me of when I was in basic training. One guy in my platoon was tired of pushups, running, inspections and the general bullshit of the Army. He told me he was going to go tell the CO that he was gay and then take the dishonorable discharge. He just didn’t give a shit anymore.
I watched him walk into our unit CO’s office. The door was shut and about two minutes later, the guy walked out looking really depressed.
I asked him what happened.
“I told the CO that I was gay and wanted to get out of the Army.”
“What did he say,” I asked.
“He stood up, pulled out his dick and told me that if I sucked him off and swallowed that he’d sign the papers. I looked at his dick, looked at him and then just walked out.”
My buddies and I just busted up. The guy kept repeating, “I can’t believe he wanted a blowjob just to prove I was gay. Why wouldn’t he just believe me!”
What would the CO have done if he said okay and tried to go down on him? :dubious: Sodomy is still a crime under the UCMJ. Still if the draft was reinstated the Army would have to allow gays to serve. Otherwise men would claim to be gay or bisexual and how could the Army disprove that? Require groups of men trying to get declared unfit have group sex with the local draft board as witnesses :rolleyes: . As much fun as that sounds it would never fly with the Right.
I read an early WW2 Marine’s account of his boot training I could hardly believe – and NOT because of the brutality, although it was used pretty freely as a training tool. What floored me was the DI’s talking to the recruits as if they were rational human beings. They could look the DI in the eye, use 1st person, all kinds of stuff that would be unthinkably lax today.
The first day (!!) one DI said to his recruits, “I won’t ask you to do anything I wouldn’t do first.” Don’t get me wrong – next thing he’d wiped up the floor with some young tough and chewed a new asshole for some cat who’d called him Sarge after being expressly told that was forbidden. But there wasn’t that shock indoctrination that’s since been adopted. It was almost as if – hell, I dunno –as if they believed they really were fighting to save civilization, instead of just training instruments of national policy.
In any case, a Marine is not likely to be a draftee or vice versa. If there were a draft, though, training and doctrine in the other services would have to change, and probably to the detriment of hardcore soldier values such as we see enshrined in a volunteer force. The problem with citizen-soldiers is that they insist on being treated like citizens. We got around this in WW2, but could we today?
The Supreme Court rules on the law of the land, not the meaning of words. The Court has ruled that capital punishment isn’t cruel and unusual; I think it’s not only cruel and unusual, but that it’s murder. The Court has ruled that forced conscription isn’t slavery; Red Barchetta disagrees. If you want to argue that draftees aren’t slaves, SCOTUS won’t help unless you’re arguing about whether the draft is or isn’t Constitutional. And of course, slavery was once Constitutional, too.
Perhaps not slavery… But it is involuntary, and it is servitude. Which, if I recall my social studies classes, is also prohibited under the 14th Ammendment.
In my view, any war fought to defend freedom, which uses conscription, is a war which is already lost. If we did have a draft, I would do whatever I could to avoid going. I cannot say for certain, but I hope that I would also be willing to put myself in harm’s way to do what I can to help others justly dodge the draft.
Incorrect. In the cites I mentioned earlier, the SC specifically disagreed that the draft was “involuntary servitude” or “slavery.” Therefore, the SC implicitly understands and states that the draft IS Constitutional.
As I said before, wishing it otherwise won’t make it so.
The SC ruled on “the law of the land” stating that draftees aren’t slaves. Therefore, they are not slaves. Therefore, “slaves” do not mean “draftees.” Therefore it ‘helped’ my argument.
For all those who say the draft would be a disaster because it would bring in a lot of people who don’t want to be there: One interesting aspect of the OP was the suggestion that if there was a draft there could be a non-military option: some kind of homefront service, in lieu of the military. Teach for America, or Americorps, or the CCC for a couple years – something like that. So if that were an option for all the draftees who would absolutely loathe the military, wouldn’t the military just get the guys who were okay with the idea and could make good soldiers, but just never joined for one reason or other?
We’re all clear on what the law of the land is. Red Barchetta, unless I misunderstood him somewhere, was saying they are slaves whether or not the Court feels that they are legally considered slaves. [Somebody] Tell me if I’m missing something.
He’s not overriding the Court, he has a different opinion from the court. You’re failing to grasp the difference between laws and opinions. I offered another example in post #65.
I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere but I still wanted to see how people felt.
OK, new thread: Bring back the draft beer and get rid of the cans! Why or why not?
