# "Bring 'em on!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008 "2003-07-03T12:59:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/181 "2003-07-11T16:38:07Z")
Hey guess what? I just wrote a compuscreen play about a bunch of guys rapping on _Straight Dope Talk_. I call it, \*\* _" Bring 'em On…Unveiled",_\*\* Wanna hear it? Scene One: Set One: (as the curtain opens a man of some self-importance stands before a dressing mirror mumbling. The man turns slightly, and in the improved light we can see that the man is _elucidator_…or _Latro_…or _braintree_…or _Chosgod_…or _sterra_…or\* jr8\*…or \* Dissonance\* or any number of faceless liberals who through missguided passions have lost the capability to think balanced thoughts. We join the Straight Dope Forum listening to voiceover of this liberal man as he says to the mirror…) " …and so, Bush has won the heart and minds of the people of America by his heroic liberation of the Iraqi people, so now we, as ankle-snipping dogs, must discredit this great deed and demonise Mr. Bush. Because if we don’t, we will have about as much chance of winning the coming presidential election as we do of selling Hillary Clinton as a newday Betty Crocker and not a cookie-baking bitch." **First Nice Poster** : (reflecting) I am not a young man. In my time I’ve seen the fall of the Berlin wall and I’ve witnessed the collapse of the stupid southern institution of state segregation. But I didn’t see the purge of evil communism throughout the soviet empire. I just woke up one day and it was gone. \*\* First weak-kneed liberal Poster\*\*:\* Meally-mouth, meally mouth, nit-pick, whine.\* **Second Nice Poster** : How wonderful Mr. Firstnice, I’m not very old but I have seen a miracle. I’ve seen one man with the aid of his consort Tony Blair go forth in the face of a temporizing world and almost single-handily free thirty million Iraqis from the yoke of abject tyranny. Wow! What a moment to be alive. **Second weak-kneed liberal Poster** ; _whine, whine, carp, carp, whine, Nit-pick, nit-pick, whine._ **Blackirishman** : Can’t we just all get along? (In a sudden our computer speakers come to life. The great Richard Strauss’s tonepoem "A Hero’s Life"is heard as the scene changes. The violins squeek and the flutes peep shrillly, this represents the nit-picking manner of our Hero’s enemies. But these discordant sounds are overcome and drowned out by deep throaty french horns that slowly evolve into a crescendo gathering of the powerful triumphant sounds of a full orchestra. This finale symbolizes our Hero’s final victory over his detractors and Democrats. Then at once the computer screen is filled with the red white and blue of the American flag. A tiny dot in the center of this flag grows bigger and bigger until a face appears and grows even bigger until it fills the entire screen. It is George W Bush. He is smiling.) 🙂 **Curtain.** Pretty good huh? ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/182 "2003-07-11T17:02:06Z")
Here’s a very used rebuttal… Don’t quit yer day job. ---
**Author:** ![ChaosGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac91a4/32.png) [@ChaosGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChaosGod)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/183 "2003-07-11T17:50:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kingpengvin \* > \*\* > Don’t quit yer day job. \*\* Exactly my thought ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/184 "2003-07-11T22:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ChaosGod \* > \*\*Exactly my thought \*\* Does **Milum** _have_ a day job? Seems to have a lot of time to …er…compose. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/185 "2003-07-11T23:21:16Z")
Oh no…\…he called us _liberals_! _ **Aieeeeeeee!!!** _ Yea verily, I am cut to the quick by this cruel, cruel gibe! How will I ever recover from the wounds inflicted by **Milum** ’s rapier wit and razorlike perspicacity? \ BTW, nice choice of music, **Milum**. I seem to recall it was a favorite of another famous world leader as well. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*Does **Milum** _have_ a day job? Seems to have a lot of time to …er…compose. 😉 \*\* Not surprising; remember, junior high’s out for the summer. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/186 "2003-07-11T23:28:27Z")
Dang, is this thread still going? Hmm…according to **Milum** , “liberal” apparently means “wrong on any issue in which the person in question does not agree with me”. Right, noted. BTW, if an ever-growing image of a grinning GWB ever appeared on my computer’s display, I’d call in an exorcist. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/187 "2003-07-11T23:44:35Z")
Personally I find it disappointing when the best arguments that some of the more conservative members of the boards can muster are either: **1) You’re all “liberals”, and thus I don’t have to listen to any evidence you present in support of your argument, no matter how compelling.** or **2) It doesn’t matter if Bush acted wrongly or not, because he’ll win the next election regardless, so there.** Which is not to say that all the Republican members of the boards are so inept at defending their side of the debate, but by golly the right-wing dunderheads certainly seem to greatly outnumber both the more rational members of their own camp and their “Bush is a doodyhead, so nyah” counterparts on the other side of the political spectrum. The art of political debate is, if not dead, at least looking very ill indeed. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/188 "2003-07-11T23:54:55Z")
Bush _IS_ a doodyhead. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/189 "2003-07-12T00:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*Bush _IS_ a doodyhead. > 😃 \*\* Erm…well, thanks for _your_ contribution to the informed debate… :wally ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/190 "2003-07-12T00:26:18Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by jr8 \* > \*\* …by golly the right-wing dunderheads certainly seem to greatly outnumber both the more rational members of their own camp…_\* You’re confusing number of people with number of posts. The dunderheads are much, much more likely to continue to post to a dead thread. I wouldn’t even be looking in on this one at this point if Bib hadn’t gone and moderated GQ already this evening. > [@](#): > > and their “Bush is a doodyhead, so nyah” counterparts on the other side of the political spectrum. Given that this thread is itself a “Bush is a doodyhead” thread, I think you might be in error here, too. But I’m not in a mood to count 'em up. (That’s what Total Information Awareness is for. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/191 "2003-07-12T00:47:18Z")
Uh-oh. He’s turning us in. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/192 "2003-07-12T02:30:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jr8 \* > \*\*Erm…well, thanks for _your_ contribution to the informed debate… > > :wally \*\* Well, nobody else had actually said it. :rolleyes: So, you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Aristarchus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Aristarchus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aristarchus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/193 "2003-07-12T13:27:32Z")
Listening in, I must think back to the last presidential election that Gore won, but didn’t. Question is: Of the people who voted for Gore–the people who won the election for him, though he didn’t win–of those people: How many will vote again for the Democratic ticket? Second question is: Of the people who voted for Bush, who didn’t win the election, but did–how many of those will change their votes to the Democratic ticket because their perception of Bush has dramatically changed? How many who voted for Bush believe he is a self-serving liar? How many who voted for Bush believe he has shown poor judgement? How many who voted for Bush who was as aware of anti-war rallies and vigils throughout the world will change their votes to the Democratic ticket because Bush categorically ignored the cries against war voiced throughout the world? Those are the questions that I believe the next presidential election will answer. Now, for sake of argument, let’s assume that almost all who voted for the Democratic ticket last time around also vote for the Democratic ticket this time around. And let’s assume, again for sake of argument, that many who voted for the Republican ticket believe Bush is not trustworthy–for whatever reasons they may possess–and will vote instead for the Democratic ticket. Let’s assume those two points. Would the Bush machine still be able to win an election it didn’t win, but will anyway? That’s what I would like to know–for sake of argument in the abstract. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/194 "2003-07-12T13:45:16Z")
Welcome to the board, _Aristarchus_. > [@](#): > > Now, for sake of argument, let’s assume that almost all who voted for the Democratic ticket last time around also vote for the Democratic ticket this time around. And let’s assume, again for sake of argument, that many who voted for the Republican ticket believe Bush is not trustworthy–for whatever reasons they may possess–and will vote instead for the Democratic ticket. Let’s assume those two points. > > Would the Bush machine still be able to win an election it didn’t win, but will anyway? Under that assumption, the Democrat would win. The 2000 election was so very close that the slightest net shift away from Bush would mean a Democratic victory in 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Aristarchus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Aristarchus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aristarchus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/195 "2003-07-12T14:06:49Z")
Thanks for the welcome, _december_. > [@](#): > > The 2000 election was so very close that the slightest net shift away from Bush would mean a Democratic victory in 2004. Then there’s hope. And perhaps more than the Republicans want to acknowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/196 "2003-07-12T16:27:07Z")
Well, that assumption is whack. The fact is, if the election were held today, George Bush would stomp all over the Democratic challenger. Bush currently enjoys something like a 60% approval rating, which is quite high for a sitting president. Among Republicans, his approval rating is in the high 90’s. Among independents, in in the 70’s-80’s. It only the registered Democrats that disapprove of him, but even something like 30% of them think he’s doing a good job. In the first election, George Bush’s main liability was that people saw him as a lightweight - not smart, inexperienced, unserious. The criticism of him in the media was that he was a heavy drinker in the past, a fratboy type if you will. Skipped Vietnam, got an impaired driving charge, etc. They wondered if he was presidential material. Al Gore, on the other hand, had the advantage of a couple of decades experience in Washington, and eight years in the White House. Gore should have wiped the floor with Bush, based on that analysis. He didn’t, because he ran a truly dreadful campaign, and because he came across and stiff and wooden, while George Bush benefitted from low expectations (as usual) and proved to be surprisingly tough in the debates and ran a masterful campaign. This time around, Bush is the incumbent. He’s got the money. He’s got the experience. No one can call him untested - he’s gone through probably the most difficult presidency since at least LBJ, and maybe going back to Truman. And as of today, 60% of the people think he’s done a good job under very trying circumstances. That does not bode well for the Democrats. Of course, anything can happen in a year, and voters have a short memory, so I’m not making any guarantees. But as of today, Bush is looking damned likely to be the President for five more years. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/197 "2003-07-12T16:46:56Z")
But if the current trend continues, **Sam** , that majority approval rating is going to be gone in only another 18 days. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/198 "2003-07-12T16:54:14Z")
And if it does, maybe I’ll revise my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/199 "2003-07-12T21:25:16Z")
Whew! I did it. I tallied the 197 posts listed in this _Straight Dope_ thread and separated them by their obvious sentiment. Here are the results… \*\*Posters who said “Bring 'em on” was stupid or just didn’t like Bush\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_48 different posters with 146 posts. Posters who found “Bring 'em on” acceptable or just liked Bush\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_8 different posters with 40 posts.\*\* Conclusion: Obviously the American voting public is out of step. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008/200 "2003-07-12T22:26:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milum \* > \*\*Whew! I did it. I tallied the 197 posts listed in this _Straight Dope_ thread and separated them by their obvious sentiment. Here are the results… > > \*\*Posters who said “Bring 'em on” was stupid or just didn’t like Bush\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_48 different posters with 146 posts. > > Posters who found “Bring 'em on” acceptable or just liked Bush\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_8 different posters with 40 posts.\*\* > > Conclusion: Obviously the American voting public is out of step. \*\* Of course, it _has_ been said many times that Dopers are more likely to be of above average intelligence… 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bring-em-on/186008.md?page=11)