# Bringing a Bible into Saudi Arabia
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 21, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843 "2005-05-21T03:03:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 7
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [May 26, 2005, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843/121 "2005-05-26T11:55:50Z")
I agree, both sides have a valid point. It is a matter of degree, when and where one should draw the line.
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### Author:  [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)
#### Post date: [May 26, 2005, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843/122 "2005-05-26T12:23:45Z")
I live in another country that has some human rights issues. I have very strong personal views about Tibet, and my family like just about every family during the cultural revolution has some pretty serious scars. But, I’m with Paul and Kimstu, be upfront about it.
This ain’t your country. Encourage your beliefs, discourage that you disagree with, and outright protest/civil disobeiance you should check at the border. Those who do so make it tough for the rest of us to either help enact change or just live our own fucking lives here.
I’ve been on the wrong end of attention because of religious nutjob prostelyzing dickheads had to go and blatantly stir up a hornets nest.
The mark of a nutjob is to die honorably for a cause. That of a hero to live quietly for a cause.
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### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843/123 "2005-05-27T00:09:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> [Yes, stand up for your principles by protesting what you consider injustice, but do it right from the get-go. […] If you really believe that “bad rules need not be followed”, then have the courage to say so from the start.
>
> So you’ll get hassled, denied a visa, maybe fired, for the sake of your principles. So what? You’ve stood up for what you believe in, and made a very visible sacrifice for it. That’s a public statement that will inspire people to take this issue seriously.
And tthat, in most cases, will achieve nothing. I must disagree here. Let’s assume that the concealed action is undisputably moral. For instance, you try to sneak in relief aid for a blatantly persecuted minority. I must say that lying on your visa application, to your employer, etc… and actually achieving something important is much more moral IMO than just telling the truth and achieving nothing.
Yes, there are _some_ _very rare_ cases, historically, when open civil disobedience achieved something. In general, such a thing at best achieve nothing, at worst gets you in a jail or in front of a firing squad. Generally speaking (actually in almost all cases) acting secretely is the way to go.
And if the cause is important enough, a lie to your employer is really of no moral consequence. I’ve no moral qualms not respecting a law on a moral basis and openly lying about it (actually, I already did so, though it couldn’t achieve anything…I just didn’t see the point of facing the IMO morally reprehensible legal consequences).
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843/124 "2005-05-27T04:37:59Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi]
I honestly think a personal-use Bible is no problem. On the other hand the law often is what that particular guy says it is that day.
QUOTE]
After the Saudi mutaween police prevented the school girls from leaving a burning building because they didn’t have their head coverings I believe it may very well be the case that the law is whatever the guy says it is at the time.
I can’t imagine a more backward place and I sure as hell wouldn’t bring a box full of bibles in to piss them off.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843/125 "2005-05-27T05:08:31Z")
The school fire on 11 March, 2002 enraged the Saudi public. Absolute rage. Still, the truth is more complex than than the snapshot.
First off, people claiming to be associated the The Committee (for the Promotion of Virtue and the Suppression of Vice, a.k.a The Religious Police) got in the way of the rescue and so fifteen girls died.
On the other hand, the RP do not have uniforms. Anyone can claim to be a member. Bullies like to that. Further, once the real police arrived, they arrested the troublemakers and rescued them from the crowd.
The Committee denied the fools were associated with them. Nobody really believes that though. The Committee has been laying low ever since.
The Presidency for Girls Education was also at fault the building (a rented apartment building) was unsafe. Like every building around here the exits were blocked or locked. The President tried to solve the problem by buying off journalists with gifts. That backfired and the journalists squealed.
More public rage. The Presidency was disbanded and folded into the Ministry of Education.
Of course that does not bring the dead back. Still, it was a remarkable time to be in the Kingdom.
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### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843/126 "2005-05-27T13:13:07Z")
I think people underestimate how much a “backward” society like Saudi Arabia benefits and can progress just from having well behaved foreigners living there. The option naturally being a Meiji Japan that isolated foreigners.
The fact that Paul in Saudi for example has constant contact with saudis will change there country and citizens MUCH MUCH more than some dumb bible basher being provocative and disruptive. Nothing dispels stereotypes and negative images and living side by side with those that are different and respectfully.
```
I understand that people might think that the Saudi Laws should be attacked... but that would hardly change their society. While a constant contact will surely erode their "bad" ways. I very much doubt that those bibles would have much of an impact even if they converted someone... or if they promoted the idea of "free speech". If you don't work with them... how will their society change ? Not by force.
Hey I'd love to torch and force change on the bible belt just as much as the next liberal... but we surely agree that won't change their ways.
```
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### Author:  [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)
#### Post date: [May 28, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-a-bible-into-saudi-arabia/304843/127 "2005-05-28T21:50:44Z")
> [@Jojo](#):
>
> On a separate note, I was wondering whether it would be legal to actually form a company that prints verses of the bible (or the koran) on toilet paper. I reckon there would be plenty of atheists and agnostics out there willing to buy it - you could read Jesus or Mohammed’s latest musings and then wipe your arse with it.
>
> I realise that this would cause great offence to a lot of people but that’s half the point. Would it be legal to print such toilet paper - it may be a profitable business? I’m guessing the business would be closed down on “public order” grounds or something.
>
> Shame - I’d buy it.
certainly legal.
certainly imprudent.
Unless you jones for associate membership in the Salman Rushdie Society for Involuntary Reclusives
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