# Bringing Guns to Obama Appearances -- Trouble waiting to Happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848 "2009-08-18T15:23:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/101 "2009-08-19T22:59:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t you ever get tired of asking this question? You do it seemingly in every thread, and you always get the same answer: if we knew when or if it would become necessary to defend ourselves, we would only carry it on those occasions. But we don’t, so we carry them all the time. Why do you carry a pocketknife? For the infrequent times you might need one. Same same. No, I can understand “I carry a gun in case I might need to use it”, provided that the person has some reason to think they might ever actually need to use it. But **StaudtCJ** said that his reason for carrying a gun was just that he always does so, and _that_ doesn’t really make sense, since it could equally well apply to anything anyone ever does. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/102 "2009-08-19T23:25:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, I can understand “I carry a gun in case I might need to use it”, provided that the person has some reason to think they might ever actually need to use it. But **StaudtCJ** said that his reason for carrying a gun was just that he always does so, and _that_ doesn’t really make sense, since it could equally well apply to anything anyone ever does. So? What’s your point? Are you still thinking that we owe you a reason? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/103 "2009-08-19T23:32:12Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Wow, that’s pretty shocking. Almost as much as, say, a Presidential candidate schmoozing with a known bombmaker. That could never happen, right? > > Color me unconcerned. I’m not a big fan of guilt by association. I find that hard to believe, since you had no trouble bringing that hoary “schmoozing with a known bombmaker” excuse at the drop of a hat. Tell me something-is there _anything_ the Right can do that can’t be excused by “Them Libruls did it too!!”, or are they completely lacking an internal set of morals? At what point do you shout, “I don’t give a shit what the other side did or didn’t do-_we_ are above that kind of crap.”? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/104 "2009-08-19T23:39:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I find that hard to believe, since you had no trouble bringing that hoary “schmoozing with a known bombmaker” excuse at the drop of a hat. > Tell me something-is there _anything_ the Right can do that can’t be excused by “Them Libruls did it too!!”, or are they completely lacking an internal set of morals? At what point do you shout, “I don’t give a shit what the other side did or didn’t do-_we_ are above that kind of crap.”? I don’t beat Obama up for his unsavory associations, and I don’t think that this guy should be made to pay for people he was associated with years ago either. Why, precisely, should this guy’s prior associations interest me any more than anybody else’s? Yet there it is on TPM Muckraker like it’s a big deal and a win for the liberals against the conservatives. This whole thing has gotten out of hand, and if you think that my post was a “well, liberals did it first” lame-o justification, well, your knee is so touchy that you couldn’t even see that mine is not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/105 "2009-08-19T23:45:23Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > So? What’s your point? Are you still thinking that we owe you a reason? Why do you guys always get so touchy about the question. It’s innocent enough. toting a heater everywhere you go is an eccentric behavior. It’s like always carrying a rake over your shoulder. You’re going to make people curious. Don’t be so sensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/106 "2009-08-19T23:46:53Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I don’t beat Obama up for his unsavory associations, and I don’t think that this guy should be made to pay for people he was associated with years ago either. > > Why, precisely, should this guy’s prior associations interest me any more than anybody else’s? Yet there it is on TPM Muckraker like it’s a big deal and a win for the liberals against the conservatives. > > This whole thing has gotten out of hand, and if you think that my post was a “well, liberals did it first” lame-o justification, well, your knee is so touchy that you couldn’t even see that mine is not. The first part of the post was to you. The second, on the other hand, was for all those who autopost with “Well. _your_ side is just as bad!” ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/107 "2009-08-19T23:57:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why do you guys always get so touchy about the question. We get touchy about the question because you won’t stop asking it. > [@](#): > > It’s innocent enough. No, it’s not. It always turns into a gotcha-type thing. Whatever reason is given is always questioned, as if the reason isn’t good enough when it only needs to be good enough for the person who is carrying it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/108 "2009-08-19T23:59:50Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I don’t beat Obama up for his unsavory associations, and I don’t think that this guy should be made to pay for people he was associated with years ago either. > > Why, precisely, should this guy’s prior associations interest me any more than anybody else’s? Yet there it is on TPM Muckraker like it’s a big deal and a win for the liberals against the conservatives. > > This whole thing has gotten out of hand, and if you think that my post was a “well, liberals did it first” lame-o justification, well, your knee is so touchy that you couldn’t even see that mine is not. Your analogy is baloney anyway. Obama was not associated with the Weather Underground and barely even knew Ayers. he certainly never espoused the Weather Underground _cause_. This guy is an actually an advocate for the Viper Militia, so the connection is more relevant. Having said that, I still don’t think it’s very important, but the Obama/Ayers thing never had any substance to it all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/109 "2009-08-20T00:19:47Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Don’t you ever get tired of asking this question? You do it seemingly in every thread, and you always get the same answer: if we knew when or if it would become necessary to defend ourselves, we would only carry it on those occasions. But we don’t, so we carry them all the time. Why do you carry a pocketknife? For the infrequent times you might need one. Same same. Let’s remember what we’re talking about here: If you attend a presidential event, with Secret Service and police officers all over the place, then, no matter what happens there, there is no conceivable situation in which **your** carrying a firearm is going to make things better instead of worse. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/110 "2009-08-20T00:30:39Z")
Thank God they’re going to follow me to and from the event, too, stopping everywhere I stop and always vigilant for my well-being. Except they’re not. But hey, that’s not sufficient justification for you, I already know that. Thank you for confirming what I said above, no explanation is ever good enough for you, so there’s no need to try anymore. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/111 "2009-08-20T01:25:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, I can understand “I carry a gun in case I might need to use it”, provided that the person has some reason to think they might ever actually need to use it. But **StaudtCJ** said that his reason for carrying a gun was just that he always does so, and _that_ doesn’t really make sense, since it could equally well apply to anything anyone ever does. I believe that it was said in the same way one might say ‘I wear a watch because I always do so.’ As in, it’s something one is accustomed to doing, and one would have to have a pretty good reason _not_ to be wearing said watch. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/112 "2009-08-20T01:58:58Z")
I read **Airman’s** post not as saying, “yeah, but Obama was pallin’ around with terrorists!” but rather “guilt by association is teh stupid; I thought it was dumb then, I think it’s dumb now.” I agree, but a bit is missing. As noted Obama’s connection with Ayers is extraordinarily tenuous; non-existent as far as the insinuations are concerned. And while I think TPM is over the top (see my earlier post), there is _some_ context that can be gleaned from his past self-proclaimed positions. If in fifteen years, Orly Taint (whoever the main Birther lawyer is) catches the news cycle again, the bit of background about her suits wouldn’t _automatically_ nullify what she was saying, but it would provide context. The whole “there will be resistance” fits in with this context, and undercuts more benefit-of-the-doubt interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/113 "2009-08-20T02:05:01Z")
I’ve heard many gun aficionados put forward the idea that the world would be a better place if everyone carried a gun routinely. Given that, I think it only reasonable for those of us who don’t carry to wonder why someone would. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/114 "2009-08-20T02:30:08Z")
Boy – you walk away from a thread for a day or so and it’s amazing what can show up. No way I’m going to try to respond to all these, but I stand by my initial comments. I think that **jsgoddess** restated it well: > [@](#): > > I think wearing guns to Obama rallies is one of those things that is legal and should be legal, but is also possibly a very bad idea. Despite people saying that the Secret Service “has no problem with this”, I don’t buy it. If lots of people are bringing unconcealed weapons to a rally, it makes their situation far more complex – more places to watch out for, the possibility of a real threat becomes much more complex – you can’t just look for someone taking out a gun, there are lots of guns. If more people have guns, the possibility of one being used, on purpose or by accident, is increased – and it doesn’t matter one whit if these are a crowd of responsible gun owners. This is just a matter of statuistics. even if the Secret Service _says_ that they’re unconcerned, I don’t buy it – of _course_ they’re going to say that. They’re not going to admit to lack of confidence or capability. But if they weren’t in a heightened state of awareness, they wouldn’t be doing their job. Anyone who’s at all patriotic really owes it to the Secret Service not to make their task more difficult or a situation more potentially dangerous. I don’t know how widespread this is, but those responsible are doing no one any favors by encouraging it. And I saw in the other thread people asking “who is more mature”, pointing out that gun owners have to jump through multiple hoops to prove their worthiness to engage in unconcealed carry. That may be all well and good, but it’s still no guarantee. If I get shot by an error or someone’s mistaken moment of passion, it won’t make me feel better to know that he was a more mature individual. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/115 "2009-08-20T02:31:22Z")
What fun logic. Bush 's protection had people removed who wore Tee shirts that had messages on them he did not like. If you showed up at a rally with a bumper sticker that was not pro Bush, you were sent home. But people who are screaming that Obama is a Nazi should be allowed to carry guns to his rallies. Beautiful. And then Obama is responsible for a guy who was making bombs when Obama was in diapers and was thousands of miles away. Just beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/116 "2009-08-20T02:34:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Boy – you walk away from a thread for a day or so and it’s amazing what can show up. > > No way I’m going to try to respond to all these, but I stand by my initial comments. I think that **jsgoddess** restated it well: Yeah, but in a completely different thread, I might be recanting that statement! ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848/117 "2009-08-20T08:15:20Z")
> [@haymarketmartyr](#): > > Yeah, you have a right to bring a bright pink dildo to Grandma’s birthday party. But only a real jerk would even consider it. [She didn’t seem to mind.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-BrJMO0q8Y) Sorry for the hijack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bringing-guns-to-obama-appearances-trouble-waiting-to-happen/506848.md?page=5)