# Brit Dopers: explain the roundabout **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288 "2005-06-14T23:05:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/21 "2005-06-15T00:00:02Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > If a traffic circle has more than one lane, then it isn’t a traffic circle. It is a **Fiendish Thingie** , designed to weed out the weak and stupid from the gene pool. If you are in the inside lane (because you are a) stupid, or b) a wanker) you could be there for years. No-one will yield, for they know you are weak. 😃 Aha. That’s why God created flashing orange lights. (Again, left/right confusion): If you want to turn right at a ‘four-way’ two-lane roundabout…you signal right as you approach, and continute to signal that until you ‘pass the exit before your exit’, at which point you signal right. At this point, you can continue in the outer lane, or check that the inside lane is clear. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/22 "2005-06-15T00:05:26Z")
[Here](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=11&X=7884&Y=74788&W=3) is a higher-resolution aerial photo of Los Alamitos Circle in Long Beach, CA, in which the lack of lane markings is clearer than in the Google maps photo. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/23 "2005-06-15T00:06:00Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > There are lots of traffic circles in Washington, DC. The most complex one is [Dupont Circle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Circle), just under a mile from the White House Quite simply, that’s not a roundabout, that’s a traffic circle of the worst kind. Roundabouts should not be features, they should be as insignificant as as inconsequential as traffic lights. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/24 "2005-06-15T00:09:45Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > [Here](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=11&X=7884&Y=74788&W=3) is a higher-resolution aerial photo of Los Alamitos Circle in Long Beach, CA, in which the lack of lane markings is clearer than in the Google maps photo. This picture reinforces my suspicions, that it’s an old-school traffic circle, with a half-arsed attempt to make it into a roundabout. If they really wanted to convert it to a roundabout, they’d have a lot of real estate to sell off (or, going by the photograph, to convert to parking lots). ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/25 "2005-06-15T00:16:39Z")
A roundabout which creates a genuine four-way intersection is a joy, a thing of beauty, because it makes some kind of sense. However it can be difficult to establish which way the road actually goes, ie. which way counts as “straight on”. You’re often not talking about arriving at 6 o’clock, then leaving at 12 - anything from 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock on the wheel may be the official continuation of the road, and you’ve only the signs on the approach to the roundabout to warn you of that. Your signals are expected to match. Many people signal very badly on roundabouts because they’re confused or thinking too slow. Don’t take people’s signals as gospel (like you didn’t already know that). It is very important to clock any signs on the approach to the road, because they’ll have a diagram of the roundabout. Some roundabouts have up to six different roads leaving them. What you’re not really supposed to do, I don’t think, is to just get on the roundabout and drive round and round and round until you’ve worked out which way to go. As I did on my first time. Also, on busy roundabouts, or ones on busy routes, traffic invariably ends up queueing on the roundabout. I’m pretty sure they’re not supposed to, but they do. They also refuse to make eye contact because they know they’re blocking people. If ever I see one of [these signs](http://www.slowtrav.com/uk/images/roundabout_3158.jpg), I just abandon the car. Seriously. Sure, I’ll be arrested, but it’s easier in the long run, believe me. And sometimes you can’t see the whole roundabout as you approach, because there are often large islands forming the central reservation, often [with loads of trees on](http://www.fmrib.ox.ac.uk/~steve/asset/roundabout.gif). Or [pretty statues](http://gallery.hd.org/_c/places-and-sights/_more2004/_more02/Portugal-Algarve-Faro-Aeroporto-de-Faro-oversize-statues-gazing-up-at-the-planes-on-roundabout-at-entrance-2-DHD.jpg.html). This is what you really want to practise on though: [the worst roundabout in the world](http://www.swindonweb.com/life/lifemagi0.htm). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/26 "2005-06-15T00:45:32Z")
> [@Ross](#): > > A roundabout which creates a genuine four-way intersection is a joy, a thing of beauty, because it makes some kind of sense. However it can be difficult to establish which way the road actually goes, ie. which way counts as “straight on”. You’re often not talking about arriving at 6 o’clock, then leaving at 12 - anything from 10 o’clock to 2 o’clock on the wheel may be the official continuation of the road, and you’ve only the signs on the approach to the roundabout to warn you of that. Less than that - the signs will simply inform you that a roundabout, of some form, exists. The mopre rigourous explanation is that you signal as appropriate, and ‘on passings the exit before your exit’, you indicate left. The errors arising from such situations, and compensation claims from accidents on the B1457, can’t be a serious worry. Your signals are expected to match. Many people signal very badly on roundabouts because they’re confused or thinking too slow. Don’t take people’s signals as gospel (like you didn’t already know that). It is very important to clock any signs on the approach to the road, because they’ll have a diagram of the roundabout. Some roundabouts have up to six different roads leaving them. What you’re not really supposed to do, I don’t think, is to just get on the roundabout and drive round and round and round until you’ve worked out which way to go. As I did on my first time. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/27 "2005-06-15T00:56:49Z")
[editorial] DC traffic circles annoy the hell out of me. Traffic circles were supposed to keep traffic moving without the need for a complicated intersection of three or four streets and two dozen traffic lights. But of course we have lights at every ingress _and egress_ point on every major circle. Imaine waiting at a red light at 3:00 in the morning to exit a traffic circle :mad: I happen to live on a four-lane (Logan) circle. [/editorial] ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/28 "2005-06-15T05:55:31Z")
The Highway Code: [http://www.esmerel.com/wagons/rhodes/britcode.html](http://www.esmerel.com/wagons/rhodes/britcode.html) 1. On approaching a roundabout take notice and act on all the information available to you, including traffic signs, traffic lights and lane markings which direct you into the correct lane. You should use mirrors-signal-manoeuvre at all stages decide as early as possible which exit you need to take give an appropriate signal (see Rule 162). Time your signals so as not to confuse other road users get into the correct lane adjust your speed and position to fit in with traffic conditions be aware of the speed and position of all the traffic around you. 1. When reaching the roundabout you should give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining watch out for vehicles already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off. 1. Signals and position, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise. When taking the first exit signal left and approach in the left-hand lane keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave. When taking any intermediate exit do not signal on the approach to the roundabout approach in the left-hand lane or centre lane on a three-lane road (on a two-lane road you may approach in the right-hand lane if the left-hand lane is blocked) stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want. When taking the last exit or going full circle signal right and approach in the right-hand lane keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want. When there are more than three lanes at the entrance to a roundabout, use the most appropriate lane on approach and through it. 1. In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly motorcyclists cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout long vehicles (including those towing trailers) which might have to take a different course approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals. 1. Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuver and less time to signal. Beware of vehicles making U-turns. 2. At double mini-roundabouts treat each roundabout separately and give way to traffic from the right. 3. Multiple roundabouts. At some complex junctions, there may be a series of mini-roundabouts at the intersections. Treat each mini-roundabout separately and follow the normal rules. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/29 "2005-06-15T06:00:49Z")
So for those of you claiming “that’s not a roundabout, that’s a traffic circle,” what’s the difference? Which one is [this?](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=10&X=11354&Y=105372&W=3&qs=%7cissaquah%7cwa%7c) How about when two small residential streets intersect, but there’s a circular planter right smack in the middle of the intersection that you have to go around? (e.g. [these](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=10&X=10947&Y=105595&W=3&qs=%7cissaquah%7cwa%7c)) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/30 "2005-06-15T09:17:10Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > So for those of you claiming “that’s not a roundabout, that’s a traffic circle,” what’s the difference? Which one is [this?](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=10&X=11354&Y=105372&W=3&qs=%7cissaquah%7cwa%7c) > > How about when two small residential streets intersect, but there’s a circular planter right smack in the middle of the intersection that you have to go around? (e.g. [these](http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=8&Z=10&X=10947&Y=105595&W=3&qs=%7cissaquah%7cwa%7c)) Yep, they’re both roundbouts. The two important features are that traffic _on_ the roundabout has right-of-way, and that they are _small_. Paradoxically, the huge circles that you can’t see more than one section of aren’t efficient, because they become a series of junctions to negotiated rather than just being a single manouvere. [This page](http://www.alaskaroundabouts.com/index.html) has more than you wanted to know. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/31 "2005-06-15T09:50:56Z")
Don’t be scared of roundabouts. We’ve had them in Australia since I’ve been driving. Some older drivers are terrified of them though. There is a way to mentally deal with them that will make all clear. Sure, the law says “give way to vehicles already in the roundabout”, but forget that. Just think of it as a simple T-junction. You come to the “Give Way” (US: Yield) sign just as you would at a T-junction. If something is coming, you wait. If it’s clear, you go. That’s it! All a roundabout is, is a series of T-junctions all arranged in a circle. The only one you have to worry about is the one you’re approaching. It really is that easy. There’s nothing to 'em. Think of a roundabout as a normal yield situation. Once you’re actually driving inside the thing, you can relax - you da boss. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/32 "2005-06-15T10:09:53Z")
I was taught (in Ireland) to not signal before I’m on the roundabout unless you take the first left (signal left) or the last possible exit to the right of me (signal right). _All other exits_ count as straight on. Of course, once you are on the roundabout you signal after you passed the exit before the one you are going to take. Likewise, very last exit=right turn= righthand lane. Everything else= lefhand lane. The only thing that gets to me are three lane roundabouts. I just apply guesswork to those and anger the city folk. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/33 "2005-06-15T10:13:36Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > The only thing that gets to me are three lane roundabouts. I just apply guesswork to those and anger the city folk. Normally with these, the lanes kind of ‘spiral’, so the left lane will branch off at one turning, making the middle lane into the new left lane, ready for the next turning. A new lane appears, as if by magic, on the right. Sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/34 "2005-06-15T10:40:39Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Normally with these, the lanes kind of ‘spiral’, so the left lane will branch off at one turning, making the middle lane into the new left lane, ready for the next turning. A new lane appears, as if by magic, on the right. Sometimes. And sometimes they’re marked with the road they exit onto. Sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/35 "2005-06-15T10:54:46Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > And sometimes they’re marked with the road they exit onto. Sometimes. And sometimes they are intelligible, rather than things like “ **N’cr / Wbly** ” (which I’m pretty sure I’ve seen at the bottom of the M1). Sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/36 "2005-06-15T11:29:59Z")
…Hmmm…I’m trying to think if any four-lane roundabouts exist. (South Mimms, perhaps? Elephant & Castle? I think the latter may have a fourth lane for buses, but that doesn’t count.) ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/37 "2005-06-15T12:10:51Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > …Hmmm…I’m trying to think if any four-lane roundabouts exist. (South Mimms, perhaps? Elephant & Castle? I think the latter may have a fourth lane for buses, but that doesn’t count.) Junction 8 of the M11 for Stansted Airport has a crazy arrangement with various flyovers, a roundabout within a roundabout, and at least 4 lanes. I’m a frequent visitor. It also has traffic lights all around it. [This](http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_aviation/documents/graphic/dft_aviation_026012-43.jpg) doesn’t really do it justice. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/38 "2005-06-15T12:12:31Z")
If [this link](http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?csz=Nashville%2C+TN&ds=n&&zoomin=yes&BFKey=&mag=5&trf=1) works, you can see the one in Nashville near the former location of the Country Music Hall of Fame (which has since been moved closer to the downtown section). This roundabout has just been open for about a year or so. It goes counter-clockwise and there are Yield signs at every entrance. It’s two-lane and you just have to watch what you’re doing and what the others are doing. My guess is that the maximum diameter of the thing is about 100 feet. If the link is funky, use Yahoo! Maps and find Demonbreun and 16th Ave. So. as a guide. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/39 "2005-06-15T12:33:55Z")
> [@Fromage A Trois](#): > > Junction 8 of the M11 for Stansted Airport has a crazy arrangement with various flyovers, a roundabout within a roundabout, and at least 4 lanes. I’m a frequent visitor. It also has traffic lights all around it. > > [This](http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_aviation/documents/graphic/dft_aviation_026012-43.jpg) doesn’t really do it justice. Ah, yes - I’ve had to talk my nervous mother around that one :eek: (although I thought this had been completely remodelled for the new Braintree road?) ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288/40 "2005-06-15T12:40:32Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > …Hmmm…I’m trying to think if any four-lane roundabouts exist. (South Mimms, perhaps? Elephant & Castle? I think the latter may have a fourth lane for buses, but that doesn’t count.) The road around the Arc de Triomphe in Paris has feeder roads with as many as four lanes, space for about six lanes of traffic, no lane markings, and (being France) the traffic _entering_ the circle has the right of way. I’ve only driven through it once, and was glad to get out the other side unscathed. Some Photos: [http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/albums/arc\_de\_triomphe/image07.jpg](http://www.mcgalliard.org/content/albums/arc_de_triomphe/image07.jpg) [http://rushmi.com/images/20050310chaos03302.jpg](http://rushmi.com/images/20050310chaos03302.jpg) Grim [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-dopers-explain-the-roundabout/308288.md?page=3)