# Brit-speak: if Chips==Fries, then ??==Chips **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099 "2005-05-16T17:53:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![max\_power](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/db5fbb/32.png) [@max\_power](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/max_power)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/41 "2005-05-17T08:29:25Z")
here’s a taxonomy of biscuits [http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/index.php3](http://www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com/biscuits/index.php3) I’ve had biscuits and gravy in the midwest. The gravy isn’t anything like we know as gravy on this side of the pond. For a start, it isn’t brown! It’s a greyish whitish colour and somewhat sweet… our gravy is made from meat juices, served with a roast joint of meat. I also seem to remember that the biscuits were slightly sweet too. However, this was a number of years ago so i could have it wrong… I wasn’t wild on them, but it was at a brunch in a ramada and they probably weren’t the finest biscuits and gravy available… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/42 "2005-05-17T08:37:14Z")
[QUOTE=Bambi Hassenpfeffer] And you are correct here, **Chronos** , but I wanted to add a little clarification. In the US, we have 4 distinct categories of fruit spreads, plus apple butter. [ol][li] **Jelly** : flavored only with the fruit juice.[/li][li] **Jam** : flavored with juice and containing fruit chunks.[/li][li] **Preserves** : flavored with juice and containing whole fruit.[/li][li] **Marmalade** : flavored with juice and containing fruit chunks and peels – usually citrus[/ol][/li][/QUOTE] This being the case, I cannot really understand the reason for the long-standing perception that _everything is called something different on the other side of the pond_. - your list above could just as easily be describing British market; I’d describe it thus: **Jelly** - made from _carefully strained_ fruit juice - so that it is usually clear, rather than cloudy. **Seedless Jam** - made from the pulp and juice of seedy fruits (such as raspberries), but with the seeds strained out; different from Jelly in slightly coarser texture and cloudy appearance. **Jam** - Generic fruit preserve, usually containing pieces of fruit (or whole fruits if they are small ones like blackcurrants). **Preserves** - Expensive and/or hand-made ‘craft’ versions of ‘jam’ - often with more fruit and less added sugar. **Compote** - Just the cooked fruit, minimally sweetened (and preserved by bottling in the case of retail) **Marmalade** - Usually citrus, containing fruit and shredded or chopped peel. Not that different, is it? The only realy difference is that Americans call flavoured gelatin _Jell-O_ and Brits call it _Jelly_, - it’s completely separate from the domain of fruit preserves. How do we tell the difference between someone who is talking about gelatin(jelly) and someone who is talking about a spread made from strained fruit juice(jelly)? - same way as you guys tell the difference between someone talking about thin slices of fried potato(chips) and someone talking about casino gaming tokens(chips) - context, mostly. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/43 "2005-05-17T08:40:05Z")
We also have dumplings: balls of suet and flour that get popped into a stew an hour or so before it’s finished. They have a doughy texture (not quite like bread as they aren’t kneaded) and are another cultural hangover from when you needed to feed the family on cheap calories and not too much expensive meat. Possibly an even nearer equivalent to “biscuits and gravy”. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/44 "2005-05-17T08:41:24Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > I never knew that! I’m troubled by one thing however. I’ve often seen 2oz or 4oz jars of “pineapple preserve”, which would seem rather unlikely given your definition. Are they just misusing the term, or is it regional, or what? [I’m not claiming expertise, just askin’]. Hm. Those were how I’d always heard them defined, but let’s go check. OK, Hormel has an online food glossary, and it says that the defining line between preserves and jam is that in jam the fruit is cooked down further than in preserves, rendering it softer and less well-formed, so I guess my definition isn’t quite accurate. I was thinking of things like strawberry / cherry / blueberry preserves (vs jam) which do contain whole berries. It appears to be a question of firmness and texture. ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/45 "2005-05-17T08:50:19Z")
Americans, at least in the southern part of the US, do distinguish between _white_ gravy and _brown_ gravy. The brown gravy is the kind made with meat juices. White gravy is made of flour, milk, black pepper, and often has sausage in it. Normally you wouldn’t put brown gravy on biscuits. Or white gravy on roast meat, or what have you. But some people do. And they’re weirdos. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/46 "2005-05-17T08:52:18Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > We also have dumplings: balls of suet and flour that get popped into a stew an hour or so before it’s finished. They have a doughy texture (not quite like bread as they aren’t kneaded) and are another cultural hangover from when you needed to feed the family on cheap calories and not too much expensive meat. Possibly an even nearer equivalent to “biscuits and gravy”. Quite so. Also worth noting that, in an established domestic culture, staples like _bread_ are commonplace - you just pop to the baker’s and buy a loaf, or you make one yourself in your kitchen. Whereas in a pioneer culture, there _are no baker’s shops_, maybe there are no kitchens - quick, expedient solutions arise - such as biscuits, pancakes etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/47 "2005-05-17T08:53:31Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > Not quite correct. See this [page](http://www.foodsubs.com/Juice.html). Apple cider and apple juice are distinct from each other. Juice has had the pulp filtered completely out, and cider has some of it left in. You’re right about the hard cider, though. This is not universal. Martinelli’s - a popular brand of apple juice in the San Francisco Bay Area (where I live) sells a clear filtered juice they call cider. As far as I can tell, the meanings of the terms “apple juice” and “apple cider” are regional and not consistently followed. The distinctions between jams, preserves and marmalades are also not consistently followed. For example, Smucker’s - one of the most popular national brands of jams and jellies in the U.S. - makes pineapple preserves. I’m sure it isn’t made with whole pineapples. Their [web site](http://www.smuckers.com/fg/pds/default.asp?groupid=1&catid=15) explains that their preserves are made from whole or large pieces of fruit. I have seen recipes in old cookbooks for marmalades made from fruits other than citrus. The one thing that seems absolutely consistent is that, in the U.S., jelly is made from fruit juice, without any fruit solids. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/48 "2005-05-17T08:59:50Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Quite so. Also worth noting that, in an established domestic culture, staples like _bread_ are commonplace - you just pop to the baker’s and buy a loaf, or you make one yourself in your kitchen. > Whereas in a pioneer culture, there _are no baker’s shops_, maybe there are no kitchens - quick, expedient solutions arise - such as biscuits, pancakes etc. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a lack of bread that caused ‘other’ solutions to arise. Bread-making was commonplace in Europe long before bakeries, or even kitchens, existed. Dumplings and bread are just two of a number of ways of delivering a staple food in an edible form, as are pasta, noodles, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/49 "2005-05-17T09:00:50Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > . . . in an established domestic culture, staples like _bread_ are commonplace - you just pop to the baker’s and buy a loaf, or you make one yourself in your kitchen. > Whereas in a pioneer culture, there _are no baker’s shops_, maybe there are no kitchens - quick, expedient solutions arise - such as biscuits, pancakes etc. Even here there are exceptions. Early settlers in Alaska and northwest Canada were known as “sourdoughs” for the bread they made. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/50 "2005-05-17T09:02:47Z")
> [@Jeff Lichtman](#): > > The distinctions between jams, preserves and marmalades are also not consistently followed. For example, Smucker’s - one of the most popular national brands of jams and jellies in the U.S. - makes pineapple preserves. I’m sure it isn’t made with whole pineapples. Their [web site](http://www.smuckers.com/fg/pds/default.asp?groupid=1&catid=15) explains that their preserves are made from whole or large pieces of fruit. I already corrected that above. **Antonius Block** brought up pineapple preserves as well, which is why I had to correct myself. > [@](#): > > I have seen recipes in old cookbooks for marmalades made from fruits other than citrus. As have I, which is why I said _usually_ citrus. We sell guava marmalade in my store – it’s popular with the Cubans in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/51 "2005-05-17T11:25:31Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Dunno; certainly isn’t popular by that name, although we might have something similar by another; what’s it like? I belive it’s one part mayo, one part butter-milk and then some herbs are thrown in there to give it a tangy flavor. (I have no idea what herbs are used) ---
**Author:** ![mittu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/52 "2005-05-17T11:33:51Z")
Wow, it’s almost as if Britain, America and Australia are different countries 😉 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/53 "2005-05-17T11:46:58Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > I belive it’s one part mayo, one part butter-milk and then some herbs are thrown in there to give it a tangy flavor. (I have no idea what herbs are used) I believe wars have been fought over the proper recipe for Ranch Dressing. (Well, maybe not wars, but kitchen skirmishes, certainly.) They can vary widely from “mayo, buttermilk, salt and black pepper” to mine: Equal parts mayo and buttermilk, spoonful of sugar, splash of vinegar, minced garlic, minced green onion (only a little bit), chopped dill, chopped parsley, salt, pepper and paprika. Some Spike seasoning if I have it lying around. MUST be made a day ahead of time, or it tastes boring. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/54 "2005-05-17T11:49:11Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a lack of bread that caused ‘other’ solutions to arise. Bread-making was commonplace in Europe long before bakeries, or even kitchens, existed. Dumplings and bread are just two of a number of ways of delivering a staple food in an edible form, as are pasta, noodles, and so on. Similarly, dumplings are both time and energy efficient compared to bread: a few minutes to mix, no kneading or rising, and they go in to cook with something you’re cooking already. …They’re also, in a sedentary lifestyle, instant artery-hardening food, unfortunately. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/55 "2005-05-17T11:49:35Z")
IIRC, ‘biscuits’ in the US are less like our scones and more like enormous Yorkshire puddings. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/56 "2005-05-17T11:57:48Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily a lack of bread that caused ‘other’ solutions to arise. Bread-making was commonplace in Europe long before bakeries, or even kitchens, existed. Dumplings and bread are just two of a number of ways of delivering a staple food in an edible form, as are pasta, noodles, and so on. Sure; I wouldn’t go as far as to call it a _law_, but certain ways of living favour certain methods of cooking more than others - I suspect it has contributed to some degree. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/57 "2005-05-17T13:31:27Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > IIRC, ‘biscuits’ in the US are less like our scones and more like enormous Yorkshire puddings. Actually, biscuits are just dumplings that are baked instead of stewed. There are variations on recipes, but the ingredients are basically the same: flour, baking powder (maybe yeast), sugar, salt, liquid and fat. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/58 "2005-05-17T14:14:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > So what do you call them when you’re pissed off at the French? 🙂 Us? pissed off with the French, hardly likely. We are the bestest of friends. I can’t imagine messing about with our chips. Chips are part of our culture, Fish and chips, curry and chips, sausage and chips, egg and chips … ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/59 "2005-05-17T14:20:14Z")
> [@Jeff Lichtman](#): > > Even here there are exceptions. Early settlers in Alaska and northwest Canada were known as “sourdoughs” for the bread they made. This raises a question for me, admittedly off-topic. Is sourdough bread known outside the U.S. and Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099/60 "2005-05-17T14:39:24Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > This raises a question for me, admittedly off-topic. Is sourdough bread known outside the U.S. and Canada? I’ve seen it on sale, can’t recall if I’ve ever bought it - probably a bit of a speciality item here in the UK. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/brit-speak-if-chips-fries-then-chips/304099.md?page=4)