# Britain and betting: why so big? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2007, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785 "2007-09-28T07:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/1 "2007-09-28T07:51:12Z")
I’ve noticed many news stories about Britain that mention oddsmakers, on everything from who the next Archbishop of Cantebury is to whether Amy Winehouse makes her next gig. In the US, almost all betting (legal or not) involves sports bets and it’s legal only in Nevada. Why is betting so much more popular in Britain? Where do you go to bet? On the more exotic bets, can you only choose from the offered ones or can you make up your own? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/2 "2007-09-28T08:09:21Z")
[QUOTE=installLSC] Where do you go to bet? [/quote] Betting shops are everywhere - even a lot of smallish towns seem to sustain one. I’ve never even set foot in one, so I can’t tell you anything about their operation, however, there are occasional stories in the media about someone or other making a bet on some weird and wonderful thing, so I think they will accept bets on things the customer dreams up - if nothing else, it’s good publicity. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/3 "2007-09-28T08:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=installLSC] In the US, almost all betting (legal or not) involves sports bets and it’s legal only in Nevada. Why is betting so much more popular in Britain? [/QUOTE] I’ll hazard a guess - because it’s legal all over the country, and it’s very profitable provided you offer odds on something that doesn’t have 1,000 other operators covering it. By the sounds of it the US setup has very restricted gambling availability, so I’m guessing you can make good money just by sticking to the ‘mass market’ (sports), and there’s not much incentive to push on to the frontier. And don’t forget that the US does have a huge and very successful betting industry that usually goes by the moniker of Wall Street, which is somewhat unfair to the Chicago branch. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/4 "2007-09-28T08:19:18Z")
We go to betting shops, they are on most high streets. You just walk in and place whatever bet you’d like to and it’s tax free. You walk in, fill in a slip and go to the window and place the bet, it’s pretty simple. You can bet on whatever you’d like (although IIRC you can’t bet on people’s deaths), if they haven’t got it listed they will work out the odds for you (although you’d have to make the value of the bet worthwhile). I placed a bet on the last US Presidential election (Kerry lost me £10). Currently on the William Hill website you can place a bet on a variety of sports, and the following special events: [Turner Prize](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Prize) [B B C Sports Personality Of The Year](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Sports_Personality_of_the_Year) B B C Sports Personality - Without [Lewis Hamilton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Hamilton) [R T E Sports Personality Of The Year](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT%C3%89_Sports_Person_of_the_Year) [Strictly Come Dancing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strictly_Come_Dancing) [The Booker Prize](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booker_Prize) [The Stirling Prize](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_Prize) A popular bet every year is the likelihood of snow on Christmas Day (currently: No 1/12, Yes 6/1). ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/5 "2007-09-28T08:40:42Z")
At the start of the football season I stroll into my betting shop and place a £10 bet on Rochdale FC to gain promotion from 2nd to 1st Division. The girl who takes my bet has to ask the manager for the odds, this season I got 26/1, last year 33/1. Over the years Rochdale have cost me plenty but as they have NEVER won anything in their entire history I reckon that one day the Gods must smile on both me and them ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/6 "2007-09-28T09:03:18Z")
As noted betting shops are everywhere. I don’t go into them myself - I used to go in once a year to place the traditional family bets on long priced outsiders in the Grand National 😃 - but now the internet is more convienient. I have noticed they seem to have made an effort to smarten themselves up recently. They used to be very discreet - frosted glass in the windows, double doors to stop passer-bys seeing in, etc - and pretty bare inside but I guess they have had to become more welcoming to try and get the punters back from the web. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/7 "2007-09-28T09:12:11Z")
I’ve only ever been in a betting shop once…but often I’ll place a bet while at the football. (It’s all there in the stands, the bookies having little booths dotted around.) After spending 25 quid on a ticket, plus overpriced lager, it’s just a bit of fun to stick a fiver on Ipswich losing 1-0 😉 Yes, I’m one of those odd types who bets on a loss. Some guys clearly take it very seriously, though, either with large numbers of small bets, or one big stake. [QUOTE=Szlater] You can bet on whatever you’d like (although IIRC you can’t bet on people’s deaths) [/QUOTE] The stock market is a no-go area. > [@MarcusF](#): > > They used to be very discreet - frosted glass in the windows, double doors to stop passer-bys seeing in, etc - and pretty bare inside but I guess they have had to become more welcoming to try and get the punters back from the web. The old appearance was due to fairly strict legislation, not permitting the inside to be visible from the street, etc. To keep us away from the evils, or perhaps to hide the gamblers. In the past ten years, there’s been all sorts of little relaxations of these rules. IIRC bingo halls had their advertising ban lifted, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/8 "2007-09-28T09:16:33Z")
The big trend in recent years has been online betting exchanges like Betfair. They set up markets for whatever events they think their users will be interested in, but it is the users who act both as bettors and bookmakers - you can bet on an event just like at a traditional betting site or shop, but you can also “lay”, where you are the bookmaker, if you think the odds are too short. The odds naturally find there own equilibrium point, usually slightly more generous than you would get from a betting company. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/9 "2007-09-28T09:21:27Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] The stock market is a no-go area. [/QUOTE] Somebody ought to tell all the financial spread betting companies like IG Index ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/10 "2007-09-28T09:24:52Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] Somebody ought to tell all the financial spread betting companies like IG Index [/QUOTE] I might be mistaken - I’m pretty sure it at least _used_ to be so, or perhaps spread betting doesn’t come under whichever rule applies. Can one walk into a bookmakers and place a simple bet on the FTSE rising or falling? ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/11 "2007-09-28T09:39:48Z")
[QUOTE=installLSC] I’ve noticed many news stories about Britain that mention oddsmakers, on everything from who the next Archbishop of Cantebury is to whether Amy Winehouse makes her next gig. [/quote] When Robert Runcie announced his retirement in 1990, William Hill opened a book on the identity of the next Archbishop of Canterbury. The market remained unremarkable until late July when there was a major punt on George Carey, then Bishop of Bath, whose price shrank from 20/1 to 2/1 in very quick time. Carey was duly announced the next Archbishop shortly after the book closed. Make of that what you will. . . . > [@](#): > > On the more exotic bets, can you only choose from the offered ones or can you make up your own? Many bookmakers offer novelty bets and William Hill in particular is famous for them. In the early 60s a punter approached the firm for a price about a man walking on the Moon before the end of the decade. He was offered 1000 /1 (on the short side in my opinion) which he took for £10, winning £10,000. A man from Dorset is sitting around as we speak waiting eagerly for the year 2031 to roll up. This is because Hill has laid him £20 at 1000/1 that he will live to celebrate his 100th birthday in that year. The company once received a letter from a woman called Charmaine who wanted a price about Oliver Reed’s penis having a tattoo of a bird emblazoned upon it. They wrote back asking (a) how much cash she wanted to invest and (b) how exactly would they ascertain the facts of the matter should Reed decline to expose himself for the sake of settling the bet. Charmaine didn’t reply so maybe she discovered the answer using alternative methods. If you fancy a novelty bet you could always write to Grahame Sharpe (William Hills Media Director) from whose 1991 book _Coups & Cons_ the above information has been obtained. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/12 "2007-09-28T11:25:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \* **GorillaMan** : > The old appearance was due to fairly strict legislation, not permitting the inside to be visible from the street, etc. To keep us away from the evils, or perhaps to hide the gamblers. In the past ten years, there’s been all sorts of little relaxations of these rules. IIRC bingo halls had their advertising ban lifted, for instance. Presumably it is the same for pubs - mind you - I don’t think taking out the frosted windows is going to turn us into a Mediterrenean cafe society 😃 It’s tax free to to the punter but the bookmaker is paying a tax to the Chancellor - its a very nice little earner for the Treasury (GBP 1.35 Billion in 2003-4) ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/13 "2007-09-28T11:43:01Z")
Ten years ago [Alec Holden](http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/newshour/news/story/2007/04/070426_100year_bet.shtml) bet £100 that he would reach 100. This year he claimed his £25,000. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/14 "2007-09-28T11:50:49Z")
Can anyone find the story about the guy who placed a combined bet on something like the winners of the Premiership, the lower three divisions (whatever they were called then), the FA Cup, and IIRC the cricket county championship? ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/15 "2007-09-28T12:00:55Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Can anyone find the story about the guy who placed a combined bet on something like the winners of the Premiership, the lower three divisions (whatever they were called then), the FA Cup, and IIRC the cricket county championship? [/QUOTE] Will [this one](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/345694.stm) do? The chap predicted the winner of all 8 English and Scottish Divisions, no cricket though and won £600K. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/16 "2007-09-28T12:15:07Z")
Betting exchanges such as Betfair are big business now, too - these are a brilliantly simple idea which I wish I had thought up - basically, any user of the site can take either side of any bet and name their price… so for instance if somebody thinks Man Utd have no chance and are going to lose a match, they will lay a bet (offer odds to someone else who thinks they will win). Betfair settles all the bets in favour of the winner, while keeping 5% commission. You end up with remarkably efficent markets this way - on a big football or even tennis match it’s not uncommon to have £10 million matched, and the price spread between the back and lay sides of the market is usually within 0.5%. It’s not just sports, though - they also offer markets on TV shows (Pop Idol, X Factor, Big Brother and so on), weather (eg top temperatures), stock exchange closing prices, politics, you name it… ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/17 "2007-09-28T12:19:25Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] Will [this one](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/345694.stm) do? [/QUOTE] It might be him or it might be [this fortunate punter](http://www.totalgambler.com/othersports/features/47/famous_gambles.html): > [@](#): > > Everyone knows accumulators are a waste of money, but don’t tell Mick Gibbs that. He netted the most outrageous football accumulator of all time in 2001, when his 15-fold acca netted him a £500,000 jackpot. > > The outcome of the multi-layer bet rested on Valencia versus Bayern Munich in the Champions League. The game went to penalties. ‘I was pacing and praying,’ said Gibbs. ‘I was shaking like a leaf.’ > > Bayern triumphed and Gibbs celebrated. I sincerely hope Mick had a massive saver on Valencia in that game. It wasn’t his first big win either: > [@](#): > > As if that wasn’t enough, he had hit the acca jackpot two years earlier, when he won £157,000 from a £2.50 wager. The bet as clinched when Manchester United staged a dramatic finale comeback to beat Bayern Munich in the Champions League final. Some people are just blessed. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/18 "2007-09-28T12:21:55Z")
I used to work for the equity derivatives desk in Nikko Securities in Hong Kong. We had a pair of brass balls old school English traders who would make a market in absolutely anything. I mean anything, any time any day any trade. It was awesome. IIRC Wednesdays was horse racing night, and in the after you would hear “listen mate, you either place an order, bet on the ponies or get off the fuckin’ phone. It’s race day, I don’t have time to make a market for you.” They were great. In the 1997 market crash, I knew just how bad it was when they spoke to the Japanese director and said “well, we’re down a little but should be awright.” And then when the Director walked away, turned to each other and said, “now let’s trade our way out of this.” They were down more than 50% when the Director came by, after trading multiple markets in multiple timezones, 24 hours later they were flat. Fucking impressive, let me tell you. And they never even broke into a sweat. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/19 "2007-09-28T12:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > The outcome of the multi-layer bet rested on Valencia versus Bayern Munich in the Champions League. The game went to penalties. ‘I was pacing and praying,’ said Gibbs. ‘I was shaking like a leaf.’ Well I don’t know which bookmaker he was using, but they usually settle football bets on the 90-minute result. If the game went to penalities, presumably it was tied after 90 minutes, and so the result for betting purposes was a draw. I guess he must have been betting on the overall competition winner. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/20 "2007-09-28T12:27:51Z")
He did bet on competition winners. [Link](http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sport.cfm?id=1489622006). > [@](#): > > No sane punter bets on 15-fold accumulators and expects to win. In 2001, Mick Gibbs of Manchester did just that. The previous August he placed 30p at cumulative odds of 1,666,666-1 on the outcome of 15 different competitions, ranging from rugby’s Natwest Trophy to the clincher, the Champions League. The final that year went to penalties and the 59-year-old roofer admitted he couldn’t watch as Bayern Munich’s goalkeeper Oliver Kahn saved a Valencia kick to give the Germans the cup and Mr Gibbs his record payout. You can’t bet on an individual game until the participants are known. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785.md?page=2)