# Britain and betting: why so big? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2007, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785 "2007-09-28T07:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/21 "2007-09-28T13:08:47Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I might be mistaken - I’m pretty sure it at least _used_ to be so, or perhaps spread betting doesn’t come under whichever rule applies. Can one walk into a bookmakers and place a simple bet on the FTSE rising or falling? [/QUOTE] I don’t believe so. Spread betting companies are regulated by the FSA (or whatever they call it these days) in the same way as merchant banks, stockbrokers and so on. Regular bookies are not. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/22 "2007-09-28T14:02:09Z")
[QUOTE=Szlater] Will [this one](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/345694.stm) do? The chap predicted the winner of all 8 English and Scottish Divisions, no cricket though and won £600K. [/QUOTE] I wonder if he’ll lend me his time travel machine 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/23 "2007-09-28T14:09:19Z")
> [@](#): > > The previous August he placed 30p at cumulative odds of 1,666,666-1 on the outcome of 15 different competitions… 30p? Grow some cojones, Mick, and have a fiver on at least! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/24 "2007-09-28T14:15:38Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] 30p? Grow some cojones, Mick, and have a fiver on at least! 😉 [/QUOTE] Would a bookie take a bet of £200 on a 1,000,000:1 shot? ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/25 "2007-09-28T14:25:10Z")
A chap I play tennis with quit his day-job a couple of years ago, and now is a full-time internet gambler. He’s done OK - paid off the mortgage within 2 yrs! He bets on football and cricket, although American Football is his biggest earner. He never touches golf or horseracing though - says they are too “unpredicatble” (which is shorthand for utterly rigged). My favourite “crazy wager” story is this one: > [@](#): > > A Devon pensioner has made a £500 bet he will die before the end of the year in a bid to cover his predicted inheritance tax bill. > Ex-soldier Arthur Robinson, who is 91, will win £3,000 at the 6/1 odds given by William Hill bookmakers if he passes away by 6 December 2005. > > He has calculated that is how much his estate would have to pay if he dies before the end of the year. > **[BBC NEWS | UK | England | Devon | Arthur's bet could be a dead cert](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4643731.stm)** > > A Devon pensioner bets he will die before the end of the > year in a bid to cover his predicted inheritance tax bill. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/26 "2007-09-28T14:25:18Z")
Is it legal to bet on _just anything_ in Nevada? There might be a reason why the bookies there only do sports. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/27 "2007-09-28T14:27:17Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] 30p? Grow some cojones, Mick, and have a fiver on at least! 😉 [/QUOTE] I find Mick’s staking plan difficult to comprehend. In 1999 he wins a reported £157K for an outlay of £2.50. With this in the kitty he can only bring himself to risk 30 pence the following year. Whatever happened in between he can’t have gambled the money away at those levels of investment. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/28 "2007-09-28T15:01:27Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] At the start of the football season I stroll into my betting shop and place a £10 bet on Rochdale FC to gain promotion from 2nd to 1st Division. The girl who takes my bet has to ask the manager for the odds, this season I got 26/1, last year 33/1. Over the years Rochdale have cost me plenty but as they have NEVER won anything in their entire history I reckon that one day the Gods must smile on both me and them [/QUOTE] Why do the gods always seem to smile on the shop owner? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/29 "2007-09-28T15:15:08Z")
Betting shops are horrible and they seem to be multiplying in these parts. Fast food joints, pubs and bookies are the only shops that thrive in my town! ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/30 "2007-09-28T15:15:40Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Is it legal to bet on _just anything_ in Nevada? There might be a reason why the bookies there only do sports. [/QUOTE] No it’s not. For example there is no betting permitted on any game in which a Nevada university is a participant. (You might wonder of course what purpose is serrrved by newspapers publishing the “line” on those games.) Many times you will see articles like “Nevada oddsmakers make Elizabeth Taylor (well not lately, of course) the favorite to take home this year"s Oscar.” I think those are just for fun. I don’t think it is legal in Nevada to place a bet on anything where the outcome might be known in advance (someone has to type up those little cards in the envelopes.) ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/31 "2007-09-28T16:09:06Z")
So if you live in the US but not in Nevada, there is simply no way to legally bet on the outcome of, say, a sporting event? There must be a lot of people who would like to bet on things. Is illegal betting widespread? [ETA] And if so, who are the bookies? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/32 "2007-09-28T16:23:32Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] Is illegal betting widespread? [ETA] And if so, who are the bookies? [/QUOTE] Illegal betting is a multi-billion dollar industry in the US. The bookies are also known as your friendly local criminals. That said, there are legal sportsbooks outside Nevada. Several Indian casinos run them, for example. And lots of states have horse racing – in New York, there are state-owned “off-track betting” stores that let you bet on the ponies without actually going to the track. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/33 "2007-09-28T16:35:31Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The bookies are also known as your friendly local criminals. Right. So presumably they don’t have premises. Is it all done over the phone, in alleyways, in bars? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/34 "2007-09-28T16:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=Chez Guevara] I find Mick’s staking plan difficult to comprehend. In 1999 he wins a reported £157K for an outlay of £2.50. With this in the kitty he can only bring himself to risk 30 pence the following year. Whatever happened in between he can’t have gambled the money away at those levels of investment. [/QUOTE] To be fair, and as **Szlater** alluded to, bookies will normally only take small stakes on these whopping accumulators. Also, a lot of bookies have a maximum payout in the small print (often £100,000), so it would be a waste of money to stake more, as your winnings could not get any higher! I’m surprised the bookies paid out the full winnings from 30p at 1.6 million to 1… but I suppose it’s all good publicity for them. Personally I steer clear of the bookies and their ridiculous overrounds, and do all my betting on Betfair. Apart from offering much better odds most of the time, they also offer most sports markets “in-play” so you can hedge your bets and trade your position, just like on the stock market. E.g. let’s say you’ve had a bet on Team A to win a football match. They’re underdogs, and you put £10 on at 5/1 with a conventional bookie. Midway through the first half they go a goal up. You’re praying for them to hang on so you can collect, but despite valiant defending, their opponents equalise with 5 minutes to go and the match ends 1-1. You swear, lob an empty beer can at the telly and throw away your betting slip. Let’s say, instead, you backed them on Betfair. First off, you’d probably have got closer to 6/1. But the best part is, you can sell your bet at a lower price after they score. 1-0 up after half an hour, they might be trading at 3/2 instead, so you can sell your stake back and keep a free bet on the team in the lead. At the moment your position is: Team A: +£60 Team B: -£10 Draw: -£10 so by laying £10 at 3/2 (for a £15 loss) you’d now have £45 profit on Team A and no loss on the other results: Team A: +£45 Team B: +/-£0 Draw: +/-£0 Now, as they hold on to their lead, their price gradually drops. After 80 minutes, they’re trading at 1/2 (i.e. 2/1 on). You’re watching the match and it looks like their opponents might grab a late goal, so you sacrifice a bit of your profit so you can actually win MORE on the draw, as Team A are now odds-on favourites. You lay, say, £40 at 1/2 (for a £20 loss), and you now have: Team A: +£25 Team B: +£40 Draw: +£40 All from a £10 stake. Now you watch the equaliser go in, crack open another beer and collect 40 quid. If they don’t score, you still win £20, and if Team B score a second you also win 40. Neat, huh? (Of course, if Team B scores first, you’re still screwed, but less screwed than you would be if you placed the bet elsewhere, because you could still lay a little bit to level your losses out, and maybe lose £8 instead of £10.) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/35 "2007-09-28T16:49:32Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] Right. So presumably they don’t have premises. Is it all done over the phone, in alleyways, in bars? [/QUOTE] Yep. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/36 "2007-09-28T16:53:31Z")
See, this is where puritanism gets you…billions of government funds lost through not being able to legally tax bookies, billions spent by law enforcement having to track down and prosecute illegal betting operations and billions of money going to organised crime. William Hill doesn’t send people round to break your legs, the Chancellor gets his money and the orgnaised criminals don’t get (as much) money. Better living through legalised gambling! ---
**Author:** ![ColonelDax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@ColonelDax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColonelDax)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/37 "2007-09-28T17:04:32Z")
Betting is certainly bigger and more visible in the U.K. than the U.S., but the Aussies are way ahead of the Brits when it comes to the amount of money spent on gambling. The CEO of Internet bookmaker [Sportingbet Plc](http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/1/Home.stm) said in October that Australians spend about 5.5% of gross domestic product on betting, versus about 1.5% in the U.K. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/38 "2007-09-28T17:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] Why do the gods always seem to smile on the shop owner? [/QUOTE] Perhaps you misunderstood me, by “them” I meant Rochdale FC. FWIW they are playing crap at the moment, another £10 to the bookies ☹ ---
**Author:** ![MrFloppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@MrFloppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFloppy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/39 "2007-09-28T17:55:04Z")
Are they still called ‘Turf Accountants’ in the UK? That used to make me chuckle. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785/40 "2007-09-28T18:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=MrFloppy] Are they still called ‘Turf Accountants’ in the UK? That used to make me chuckle. [/QUOTE] Yes. It baffled me as a kid, I couldn’t understand why there was a need to count grass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-and-betting-why-so-big/420785.md?page=3)