# Britain, England, etc., redux: Here's a new one **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 1, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567 "2012-05-01T22:04:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/1 "2012-05-01T22:04:31Z")
Peter Jukes of _The Daily Beast_ was being interviewed by Bob Garfield on WNYC’s _On the Media_ about the Murdoch situation and this exchange took place: Garfield: Now, you happen to be from Eng-LAND Jukes: From “Britain,” please. There’s no such nation as England. I was a little startled to hear this. I’ve never heard any Englander or Britisher say that “there’s no such nation as England” prior to this. I know that “British” has become somewhat popular since the 1990s as self-identification. Are there a lot of Britons who are actually denying the existence of England as a nation? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Know\_Nothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f04885/32.png) [@I\_Know\_Nothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Know_Nothing)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/2 "2012-05-01T22:09:13Z")
I was thinking of starting a thread about the same thing. Maybe he’s from somewhere like Cornwall, or somewhere with a real independent streak. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/3 "2012-05-01T22:40:08Z")
No, it sounds like an affectation to me. There is a very small “English nationalist” movement, something of a reaction to nationalists in other constituent countries, who claim to identify as English rather than British, but I’ve not heard it the other way round. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/4 "2012-05-01T22:55:17Z")
There’s no nation of California, either. I’m still from California. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/5 "2012-05-01T23:48:31Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > There’s no nation of California, either. I’m still from California. At least one difference is that England _is_ generally considered a nation. It isn’t an independent sovereign state, but it is a nation. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/6 "2012-05-01T23:48:57Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > No, it sounds like an affectation to me. There is a very small “English nationalist” movement, something of a reaction to nationalists in other constituent countries, who claim to identify as English rather than British, but I’ve not heard it the other way round. From what I understand, the English nationalist movement is a pretty right-wing, anti-foreigner, “England for the English” thing, so I can see people not wanting to be associated with it. I can’t think of a good US analogy, but I guess it might be like a liberal from Atlanta saying “I’m not from ‘the South,’ I’m from America!” Obviously, they’re from the South, too, but they want to make it clear that they identify with the country as a whole, not with some particular part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/7 "2012-05-02T00:02:41Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > From what I understand, the English nationalist movement is a pretty right-wing, anti-foreigner, “England for the English” thing, so I can see people not wanting to be associated with it. I can’t think of a good US analogy, but I guess it might be like a liberal from Atlanta saying “I’m not from ‘the South,’ I’m from America!” Obviously, they’re from the South, too, but they want to make it clear that they identify with the country as a whole, not with some particular part of it. You could be right, he might be keen to distance himself from that kind of English nationalism. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/8 "2012-05-02T00:53:54Z")
Well. I’m English. I’ve never heard someone from England say that. People from Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland will naturally object to being referred to as English. I don’t know who Peter Jukes is - is it possible he’s Welsh, Scottish, or Irish? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/9 "2012-05-02T01:03:13Z")
I don’t know where he’s from. His accent sounds like R.P. to me, so that doesn’t really tell me anything. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/10 "2012-05-02T01:53:23Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Well. I’m English. I’ve never heard someone from England say that. > > People from Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland will naturally object to being referred to as English. I don’t know who Peter Jukes is - is it possible he’s Welsh, Scottish, or Irish? He’s English. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/11 "2012-05-02T12:55:41Z")
Just to note: [What’s the difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain, and England? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1706/whats-the-difference-between-the-united-kingdom-great-britain-and-england) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/12 "2012-05-02T12:55:57Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > He’s English. Ooh, now you’ve got Peter Jukes mad at you… ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/13 "2012-05-02T13:36:58Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > He’s English. Born in Swindon. According to his [wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jukes) he was active in the labour party, so it might be some sort of PC non-nationalist thing. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/14 "2012-05-02T14:25:41Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > He’s English. Sounds like he’s just a bit of an oddball, then. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/15 "2012-05-02T14:32:18Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > Born in Swindon. According to his [wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Jukes) he was active in the labour party, so it might be some sort of PC non-nationalist thing. The Labor Party has an “there’s no such nation as England” streak? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/16 "2012-05-02T14:39:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The Labor Party has an “there’s no such nation as England” streak? I think it’s more a case that English nationalism tends to be tied to right wing politics. The concept of Britishness seems to be more inclusive of all the nations of Great Britain (and much of Northern Ireland 😛 ) as well as the UK’s ethnic minorities. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/17 "2012-05-02T14:48:26Z")
Could it be a case of mild annoyance at a foreigner for calling him English instead of British? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/18 "2012-05-02T15:07:32Z")
His tone wasn’t that of someone who was annoyed. And if he _is_ English, why would a guy born in Swindon with an English accent be annoyed at being called English? And remember, Garfield didn’t call him “English.” He said “you happen to be from England.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/19 "2012-05-02T15:40:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And remember, Garfield didn’t call him “English.” He said “you happen to be from England.” Well, Eng-LAND, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567/20 "2012-05-02T15:46:31Z")
I’m not entirely sure what that odd emphasis about, but he said it in a jokey manner. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-england-etc-redux-heres-a-new-one/620567.md?page=2)