# "Britain reserves the right to bomb n\*\*\*\*rs." **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773 "2014-09-28T12:46:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/21 "2014-09-30T17:47:58Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > In the UK, I don’t think it was offensive until the 1950s, when shared media with the US sort of put the kibosh on the word. There’s a PG Wodehouse novel from the 30s, where Bertie has taken up the banjolele (a 4-stringed banjo-ukelele hybrid), much to Jeeves’ annoyance, and is very excited to go hear some n\*gger minstrels from the US perform. The term is used over and over again, and it bruises the eyes a bit, of an American reading it in the 21st century, but it’s very clear that nothing at all offensive is intended. Which story is that? I don’t remember it and I thought I’d read all the J & W stories. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/22 "2014-09-30T18:06:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which story is that? I don’t remember it and I thought I’d read all the J & W stories. It’s the novel “Thank You, Jeeves”. The minstrels become a plot point, because at one point, Bertie disguises himself in blackface in order to escape a boat where he’s being held prisoner. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/23 "2014-09-30T18:08:14Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Hasn’t it always been a…if not nearly as offensive as it is today, still a pejorative term? Always thought ‘negro’ or ‘colored’ were the terms one would use in polite company. Urm … no, it has had milder connotations in the past. Specific reference: [And Then There Were None - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None) Look at the dust jacket of this particular Agatha Christie classic. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/24 "2014-09-30T18:10:26Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s the novel “Thank You, Jeeves”. The minstrels become a plot point, because at one point, Bertie disguises himself in blackface in order to escape a boat where he’s being held prisoner. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/25 "2014-09-30T18:14:30Z")
I do remember reading something about wartime provisioning for displaced persons and someone referring to what “niggers” eat, not dismissively as in “This is rubbish that no civilised person would go near,” but “This is what they are used to and enjoy, and we should provide it for them out of simple courtesy”. Not quite drawing-room language, agreed, but also not with the baggage that comes with a recent history of wholesale chattel slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/26 "2014-09-30T22:56:53Z")
I’d say it was perjorative in a sense somewhere between the words “Jew” and “wog”. That is, it was mostly intended to describe an ethnic group, but since most people, in fact, felt themselves superior to that ethnic group, it can’t help but come out as insulting. I’m pretty sure it was on this board that I read someone mocking the song “Jesus Loves the Little Children” by inserting the words “chinks and niggers, spics and kikes/they are precious in his sight” instead of “red and yellow…”. The Lloyd-George quote strikes me in the same sort of way - that is, mostly being ironic about what someone else’s motivations are. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/27 "2014-10-01T10:03:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, society was much better off when people could go around calling people _nigger_. :dubious: Political correctness had absolutely nothing to do with this. Political correctness means ‘Don’t _ **appear** _ to be racist, regardless of what you really believe or do’. It also means caving to ignorant people and firing innocent college professors for using a word like ‘[niggardly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22)’ which is not derived in any way from the same place. But who cares about the facts, appearance is all that counts… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/28 "2014-10-01T14:21:36Z")
You made my point for me rather nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/29 "2014-10-01T15:09:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s the novel “Thank You, Jeeves”. The minstrels become a plot point, because at one point, Bertie disguises himself in blackface in order to escape a boat where he’s being held prisoner. For some odd reason, in the “Jeeves and Wooster” episode adapted from that book Bertie annoyed Jeeves with a trombone instead of a banjolele. Also, if I remember correctly, Jeeves made it a point (in the novel) to say “negro”. Not because the other term was offensive, but because it was slang. A proper valet, being a gentleman, would never use slang in public. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/30 "2014-10-01T15:19:34Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > For some odd reason, in the “Jeeves and Wooster” episode adapted from that book Bertie annoyed Jeeves with a trombone instead of a banjolele. > > Also, if I remember correctly, Jeeves made it a point (in the novel) to say “negro”. Not because the other term was offensive, but because it was slang. A proper valet, being a gentleman, would never use slang in public. It was? I could have sworn it was a real banjolele. If it was a trombone, though, and not an banjolele, the simple explanation might be that Hugh Laurie can play the trombone IRL, but not any guitar-family instruments. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/31 "2014-10-01T15:25:30Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > The “N” word was common currency in English along with all the other offensive epithets and racial stereotypes… > [@Jackmannii](#): > > It seems that Brits used the n-word freely in those days to describe non-white residents of the countries they swallowed up into the Empire - including both Africans and Asians (the term was applied to people from India as well). So it would have been beyond ironic if Lloyd George had been referring to British subjects from those countries, seeing that some of them (i.e. India) contributed troops to British forces in WWI. George MacDonald Fraser in his _Flashman_ novels certainly has Harry Flashman using the word under discussion, copiously and with gusto. It would appear that so far as Flashy is concerned, everyone on earth who is not Caucasian-white, Oriental, or Native American; is a nigger. For instance, he gleefully applies the word – as well as to the folk of the Indian sub-continent – to Turks and Central Asians. Of course, Fraser is at pains to make Flashman ultra-obnoxious, and full of contempt for most of his fellow-humans, irrespective of colour – just seizing whatever means may be to hand, to express that contempt. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/32 "2014-10-01T15:28:07Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > It also means caving to ignorant people and firing innocent college professors for using a word like ‘[niggardly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22)’ which is not derived in any way from the same place. Sing it. The word is in The Canterbury Tales, where it’s spelled “nygard,” and it’s a noun that means something in between a “frugal person” and a “miser.” Someone who is more than just prudent with money, but not someone who is so stingy as to live like a pauper when he has a vault full of gold. I guess a “tightwad”; someone who will spend on himself a little, but won’t give you anything. I don’t know when it fell out of use, though. It is certainly possible that the fact that it sounded like “n\*gger” helped it into obsolescence, if the two words ever got confused. I’ve wondered about that. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/33 "2014-10-01T15:36:54Z")
You know, something just occurred to me-- I just watched _Gone with the Wind_ again on TCM, and the n-word isn’t used there even once. They say “darky” mostly. That probably isn’t historically accurate. So, even in 1938, screenwriters didn’t use the word, when they could have claimed it was historically accurate to do so, and I’m guessing that has to do with not offending people, which would mean that the word already had plenty of potential to offend white people in 1938. (yes, I know the film was released in '39, but it was written in '38) I read the book, but I read it in the mid-80s, and I can’t remember if it uses the n-word or not. It also doesn’t appear in any of the intertitles in _Birth of a Nation_, which came out in 1915 (made in 1914), but I don’t know for certain that those titles haven’t been Bowdlerized. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/34 "2014-10-01T16:44:02Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > I think it would have been quite commonly used here at the time, and no one would have thought much about it. It was mildly perjorative at the time, and was considered as such - not as vehemently as today, but nonetheless. My evidence: the famous Victorian adventure book _King Solomon’s Mines_, published in 1885 in England, has the narrator say the following: > [@](#): > > I, Allan Quatermain, of Durban, Natal, Gentleman, make oath and say-- That’s how I headed my deposition before the magistrate about poor Khiva’s and Ventvögel’s sad deaths; but somehow it doesn’t seem quite the right way to begin a book. And, besides, am I a gentleman? What is a gentleman? I don’t quite know, and yet I have had to do with niggers --no, I will scratch out that word “niggers,” for I do not like it. I’ve known natives who _are_, and so you will say, Harry, my boy, before you have done with this tale, and I have known mean whites with lots of money and fresh out from home, too, who are _not_. The narrator starts to use the term, then deliberately crosses it out because “he does not like it”, and replaces it with “natives” - while making the point that “natives” can be “gentlemen” as well as “whites with lots of money and fresh out from home”. Why does he “not like it” [that is the word ‘nigger’]? The only possible reason is that it was commonly held to have a perjorative meaning that “natives” did not. Also, that he would at first use the term meant it was commonly used, and that he had, by a deliberate effort of will, to stop himself from using it. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/35 "2014-10-01T17:00:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The narrator starts to use the term, then deliberately crosses it out because “he does not like it”, and replaces it with “natives” - while making the point that “natives” can be “gentlemen” as well as “whites with lots of money and fresh out from home”. At the risk of know-all nitpicking: as per the quoted passage, the narrator goes further than that – asserting that he has known “mean whites with lots of money and fresh out from home”, who were _not_ gentlemen. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/36 "2014-10-01T17:08:44Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > It also doesn’t appear in any of the intertitles in _Birth of a Nation_, which came out in 1915 (made in 1914), but I don’t know for certain that those titles haven’t been Bowdlerized. _Birth of a Nation_ was intended to appear as a documentary, so it doesn’t have much slang at all in its titling. IIRC, the titles mostly use “Blacks”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/37 "2014-10-01T20:39:37Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > You know, something just occurred to me-- I just watched _Gone with the Wind_ again on TCM, and the n-word isn’t used there even once. They say “darky” mostly. That probably isn’t historically accurate. So, even in 1938, screenwriters didn’t use the word, when they could have claimed it was historically accurate to do so, and I’m guessing that has to do with not offending people, which would mean that the word already had plenty of potential to offend white people in 1938. (yes, I know the film was released in '39, but it was written in '38)… Yes, that was a conscious decision (under public pressure) by the studio: [From Casting To Cutting The N-Word, The Making Of 'Gone With The Wind' : NPR](http://www.npr.org/2014/09/14/347987062/from-casting-to-cutting-the-n-word-the-making-of-gone-with-the-wind) ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/38 "2014-10-01T21:42:28Z")
Seems to me it is used throughout _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_ quite matter-of-factly, with little to no perjorative intentions. Jim (no relation) uses it freely to refer to other slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/39 "2014-10-02T13:08:19Z")
> [@vontsira](#): > > At the risk of know-all nitpicking: as per the quoted passage, the narrator goes further than that – asserting that he has known “mean whites with lots of money and fresh out from home”, who were _not_ gentlemen. True. The meaning though is the same - basically, he’s asserting that one cannot make automatic assumptions about who is or is not a “gentleman” purely by such factors as race, upbringing, or wealth. My point though was that the passage demonstrates that the term “nigger” held a perjorative meaning in 1885 in England, else the narrator would have no issues with using it to describe Black Africans - “gentlemen” or not. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773/40 "2014-10-02T13:14:54Z")
> [@jimbuff314](#): > > Seems to me it is used throughout _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_ quite matter-of-factly, with little to no perjorative intentions. Jim (no relation) uses it freely to refer to other slaves. True, but he’s living in a slaveholding society. The background assumption he’s living under is that race-based slavery is right and proper, and so that Blacks are inferior to Whites (indeed, there is a famous passage in which Huck wrestles with his concience - is he committing a “sin” by helping his friend Jim escape being sold down the river? - and decides that it is in fact a “sin”, but so be it - he’ll go to hell before he’ll betray his friend). The term “nigger” is an expression of this idea, that Blacks are inherently inferior. Where everyone (or almost everyone) already accepts that notion, it is used freely, as one would expect - even by the slaves themselves, who are acculturated to this idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britain-reserves-the-right-to-bomb-n-rs/699773.md?page=3)