"Britain reserves the right to bomb n****rs."

[Hail_Ants]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

You made my point for me rather nicely.

Ok, I’ll bite. How did I prove your point? You’d rather live in a world where people are encouraged to lie about how they really feel and only say what they know others want to hear, only ever paying lip service to the truth instead of actually valuing it (even when it’s unpleasant)?! IOW you want everyone to behave like corrupt politicians?!

Reminds me of a bitingly satirical line from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy:** “The best way for a society to not be unhappy is by not having a word for it!”**

[jimbuff314]

@Malthus

True, but he’s living in a slaveholding society. The background assumption he’s living under is that race-based slavery is right and proper, and so that Blacks are inferior to Whites (indeed, there is a famous passage in which Huck wrestles with his concience - is he committing a “sin” by helping his friend Jim escape being sold down the river? - and decides that it is in fact a “sin”, but so be it - he’ll go to hell before he’ll betray his friend).

The term “nigger” is an expression of this idea, that Blacks are inherently inferior. Where everyone (or almost everyone) already accepts that notion, it is used freely, as one would expect - even by the slaves themselves, who are acculturated to this idea.

That makes sense. Thanks.

[Melbourne]

I’ve got the songs from “Showboat” on a 78. Not to hand, so I can’t give you any details. Great version. The overture is particularly good (the overture is also the first piece directors modify, so it’s unique to this one version).

Anyway. This version uses the word “Nigger” in Old Man River.

Every other version I’ve ever seen or heard uses “Darkies”, “Colored folk” or something else. But every other version I’ve ever seen or heard is more recent. And always sounds a little false to me, because I’ve never read or watched colored folk use the term “Darkies” anywhere else, and “Colored folk” doesn’t fit the rhythm of the song as well.

[Slithy_Tove]

We should bear in mind that although a pejorative in both societies, the word was different for Americans and Britons. In the US, where there was lynching, it was used to hurt people. In Britain, where there was not lynching, it was used to dismiss people. But then, anyone who was not British was dismissible.

At one time the king of Hawaii came to London, seeking help against the Americans. He was treated to a ceremony where the Crown Prince of the German Empire, while only the son of a sovereign, demanded precedence over the King of Hawaii. Edward VII intervened on the Hawaiian king’s side with “Either the brute is a king, or he’s a common nigger. And if he’s the latter, what’s he doing here?”

[vontsira]

@Slithy_Tove

We should bear in mind that although a pejorative in both societies, the word was different for Americans and Britons. In the US, where there was lynching, it was used to hurt people. In Britain, where there was not lynching, it was used to dismiss people. But then, anyone who was not British was dismissible.

At one time the king of Hawaii came to London, seeking help against the Americans. He was treated to a ceremony where the Crown Prince of the German Empire, while only the son of a sovereign, demanded precedence over the King of Hawaii. Edward VII intervened on the Hawaiian king’s side with** “Either the brute is a king, or he’s a common nigger. And if he’s the latter, what’s he doing here?”**

The Flashman method of categorisation – as referred to in my post upthread – in action ! A Brit a little over a hundred years ago classes a native of Oceania, immediately and without hesitation, as a nigger.

[Leo_Bloom]

@RivkahChaya

…

In the UK, I don’t think it was offensive until the 1950s, when shared media with the US sort of put the kibosh on the word. There’s a PG Wodehouse novel from the 30s, where Bertie has taken up the banjolele (a 4-stringed banjo-ukelele hybrid), much to Jeeves’ annoyance, and is very excited to go hear some n*gger minstrels from the US perform. The term is used over and over again, and it bruises the eyes a bit, of an American reading it in the 21st century, but it’s very clear that nothing at all offensive is intended. When I first read it, I thought maybe it meant “black-face” as opposed to just black people, but after a little research, I was assured that someone from Wodehouse’s background wouldn’t use the n-word to describe white people in black-face.

When you read it in something like the work of Wodehouse, you just have to think of it somehow as a different word, one that has shifted meanings, like when you read Pope’s “The Rape of the Lock,” you have to remember that the meaning of “rape” has shifted.

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Which story is that? I don’t remember it and I thought I’d read all the J & W stories.

@Captain_Amazing

It’s the novel “Thank You, Jeeves”. The minstrels become a plot point, because at one point, Bertie disguises himself in blackface in order to escape a boat where he’s being held prisoner.

@Doug_K

For some odd reason, in the “Jeeves and Wooster” episode adapted from that book Bertie annoyed Jeeves with a trombone instead of a banjolele.

Also, if I remember correctly, Jeeves made it a point (in the novel) to say “negro”. Not because the other term was offensive, but because it was slang. A proper valet, being a gentleman, would never use slang in public.

@RivkahChaya

It was? I could have sworn it was a real banjolele.

If it was a trombone, though, and not an banjolele, the simple explanation might be that Hugh Laurie can play the trombone IRL, but not any guitar-family instruments.

All correct and Google checked (someone’s gotta do it).

And Edwin set fire to another of his cottages.