# Britain's Got Talent meets Les Miserables

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [April 13, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906 "2009-04-13T01:39:43Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 6

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**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/101 "2009-04-17T15:24:18Z")

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I don’t know if this video is still active (can’t access it from work), but it somewhat reminded me of [this Mrs. Miller](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-XpI8ua1Jw) scene from the 1960s movie “The Cool Ones.”

Where it’s different is that Mrs. Miller’s schtick was singing badly, unlike Susan Boyle, whose voice is incredible at the other end of the spectrum.

But the same premise: dowdy, frumpy looking person shows up to sing. People gawk, leer, and laugh, but she ends up winning them over.

(Roddy McDowall plays a Spectorish music producer in this movie).

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**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/102 "2009-04-17T15:47:17Z")

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> [@yojimbo](#):
>
> Holden. She’s an actress. She has sang on stage though in musicals. The one she made the biggest splash in was _Thoroughly Modern Millie_ IIRC

From appearances (mea culpa), I had put her down as an airhead, but I was impressed; she seemed very well-spoken and gracious.

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**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/103 "2009-04-17T15:50:51Z")

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> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> The people snickering were disgusting, but the shows editors that put those clips in to add drama to the performance have no shame.

Reading the Comments on the video, well, as many of the 100,852 Comments to date as I have time for, it’s obvious that the editors edited it in such a way to reflect the feelings of a great majority of the people watching. The editors knew what they were doing and shame or lack of it has nothing to do with it.

> [@Sitnam](#):
>
> And get real, that woman isn’t going anywhere in the competition.

Are you serious? What would make you say such a thing? How far do _you_ think she’ll get?

She can win on talent alone, which is lucky, because if she doesn’t win (or get very very very close, and lose to the reincarnation of Edith Piaf or Caruso) there will riots the world over (\<—hyperbole).

But ok, even if some bizarre bizarreness happened and she didn’t win, it doesn’t matter. She’s set for life. In _less than a week_ she’s become one of the most famous women in the world, and her first album will go double platinum within hours of release (hell, probably before release, with pre-sales). She could come in dead last in the competition and unless an unscrupulous relative/adviser rips her off, she’s going to become a multi-millionaire. And then she’ll release a 2nd album, and a 3rd, and a 4th, as many as she wants. Not to mention touring. She has A Career now and just as she surprised everyone (except the producers and her friends back in Scotland) she’ll surprise the naysayers.

And it couldn’t happen to a nicer and more humble lady.

Susan may be unemployed but she does have 8 siblings to help her out. I doubt she’s made money from any of the appearances so far, but I have no idea. Wouldn’t that be against the rules? People aren’t supposed to be professionals right? So the charity song doesn’t count because she didn’t get paid, and Simon (or anyone else) couldn’t sign her to a record deal until the whole thing’s over, right?

That reminds me, isn’t it ethically weird that Simon has a record label and has first crack at contestants? Has he ever signed an American artist? I’m clueless about the ethics here, or anything else, really. I’ve never seen an episode of American Idol and though I know of his reputation via cultural osmosis, the only other time I’ve ever actually _seen_ Simon Cowell was while watching the YouTube clip of Paul Potts. I just happened to read an article that mentioned that Simon has a label, and he signed Potts, and now I’m reading that he’s in talks with Boyle.

This is so much fun to watch. Less than a week, and the clip from the OP has 19,633,004 views. Yesterday the “Cry Me A River” clip had 304 views, now it’s 21,388 as word is spreading about it.

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**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/104 "2009-04-17T16:00:35Z")

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> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> That reminds me, isn’t it ethically weird that Simon has a record label and has first crack at contestants? Has he ever signed an American artist? I’m clueless about the ethics here, or anything else, really. I’ve never seen an episode of American Idol and though I know of his reputation via cultural osmosis, the only other time I’ve ever actually _seen_ Simon Cowell was while watching the YouTube clip of Paul Potts. I just happened to read an article that mentioned that Simon has a label, and he signed Potts, and now I’m reading that he’s in talks with Boyle.

I think Cowell signs American Idol people, too. The whole purpose of these shows is a) to make advertising money and b) to find talent for Cowell’s label (and just coincidentally, I’m sure, provide huge advance publicity for the acts he signs from the shows).

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**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/105 "2009-04-17T17:04:56Z")

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> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> That reminds me, isn’t it ethically weird that Simon has a record label and has first crack at contestants?

The whole and entire purpose of the programmes Cowell is a judge on are to find new talent for Cowell to sign and promote and make money from.  
I don’t think it’s unethical - Cowell is a business man and the business he is in is to make money off other peoples’ talents.

The fact that he can sell the actual process of talent-scouting to the public, making more money and guaranteeing his newly found artistes a massive amount of exposure surely means he’s a pretty shrewd business man. Why should any other record label get first crack at anyone he discovers?

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**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/106 "2009-04-17T17:18:13Z")

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> [@cosmosdan](#):
>
> How dare they print what many people have thought.
> 
> I did think the judges reaction was a slap in Susan’s face.
> 
> Wow you showed us. Nobody expected anything good out of \*you \*.
> 
> Um, really, why?

I noticed this too the first time I saw the clip.

Everyone was against you when you walked on here tonight.

No one thought you could pull it off, but you sure showed us!

When you said you wanted to be as famous as . . . that singer, we all . . . laughed, or something (I don’t remember exactly what they said.)

You might have the body of a butcher’s wife, but you have the voice of an angel. (OK, I made that one up.)

Ummmm . . . \*thanks? \* :dubious:

Best shot of the whole clip was Simon’s eyebrows going up when she started singing. He didn’t give her a standing O. I don’t watch American Idol; is he one of those wankers who just refuses to be impressed by anything on general principle?

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**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/107 "2009-04-17T17:51:35Z")

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Holy cow, that _Cry Me a River_ recording is lovely. Shows what she can do in a studio, when not nervous and being jeered. Still some slight flaws but that’s because her voice hasn’t been engineered out of all its humanity, the way producers do now. Very, very nice. I don’t see any discrepency between “never been kissed” and someone who can sing/emote like she can. Jane Austen and the Bronte sisters managed to create powerfully romantic universes. Hearts can be wise regardless of what the body has done.

Many thanks for linking to it, **Equipoise**.

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**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/108 "2009-04-17T18:40:15Z")

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[Piers Apologizes](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/17/earlyshow/leisure/music/main4951767.shtml)

> [@](#):
>
> “I mean,” said Holden, “it’s a very shallow thing to say but, obviously, the minute she walked onstage we all, and the audience, completely judged her on her appearance and everything else. And I hate saying that. But, you know, that true cliche, we judged a book by its cover, unfortunately, and we’re all very cynical. The audience was jeering and booing and it was just really uncomfortable, wasn’t it? And we were, ‘Oh, just please be good or just get off. Because it’s just – we just need you to do something here,’ because we were so dying for her.”
> 
> Morgan said, “I would just like to apologize to Susan Boyle, because I think it’s long overdue, because, from the clip, you know, (millions of) people could see that Simon Cowell (the third judge that night – he of “American Idol” fame) and I – we don’t have the best reputations, I think, for courtesy in America. I think we owe her on apology because it was an amazing performance. As I said, we were all laughing at her when she started, and by the end, the last laugh was on her.”

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**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/109 "2009-04-17T19:35:46Z")

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Thanks for the Cowell info **Dublin11** and **jayjay**. Now, even though I’ve never seen an episode of American Idol, I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the winners (and runnersup?) have to sign a contract that practically puts them in indentured servitude to American Idol, and can’t sign with just anyoldbody they want. Is that true or a myth? If it (or parts of it) is true, is that indentured servitudeish-like thing to Simon Cowell’s label? Does he own American Idol?

Btw, thanks **yojimbo**. Holden, got it.

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**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/110 "2009-04-17T19:43:33Z")

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The [Times Online](http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article6112697.ece) confirmed that “Cry Me A River” was genuine Susan (if there was any doubt).

> [@](#):
>
> The sudden singing star’s spokeswoman confirmed this morning that an emotional recording of Cry Me A River which hit YouTube late last night is the 48-year-old Scot.

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**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/111 "2009-04-17T19:50:11Z")

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> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> Thanks for the Cowell info **Dublin11** and **jayjay**. Now, even though I’ve never seen an episode of American Idol, I seem to recall hearing somewhere that the winners (and runnersup?) have to sign a contract that practically puts them in indentured servitude to American Idol, and can’t sign with just anyoldbody they want. Is that true or a myth? If it (or parts of it) is true, is that indentured servitudeish-like thing to Simon Cowell’s label? Does he own American Idol?
> 
> Btw, thanks **yojimbo**. Holden, got it.

The exclusive rights to sign American Idol contestants belongs by contract to Cowell’s label Sony BMG. There was a big to-do a few years ago when Cowell was supposedly going to quit the show because the original contract with Sony BMG was ending and Fox and the Idol creators didn’t want to extend it. Cowell basically was threatening to walk because he didn’t want to make stars for some other label. That was taken care of by a (probably typically) convoluted contract involving profit-sharing between about seven different entities and the renewal of Sony BMG’s exclusive contract.

To the best of my knowledge (I don’t even actually watch AI), the winners and I’m not sure how deep runners up are signed to something like a 2 or 3 album contract with Sony BMG. This isn’t always to their benefit…Kelly Clarkson wasn’t really able to start experimenting musically until the contract ended and she wasn’t being handled under it anymore. But the conditions of winning are, I’m sure, made clear before the Idol contestants actually audition…I imagine there’s tons of paperwork those people have to fill out before they even get in the studio door.

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**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/112 "2009-04-17T22:00:23Z")

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OK, I have to admit that I was quite impressed by her rendition of “Cry Me a River”. She can sing a bit, eh? It’s surprisingly sultry and bluesy… even, dare I say it, sexy? :eek:

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**Author:** ![maplekiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@maplekiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maplekiwi)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/113 "2009-04-17T22:53:29Z")

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I pefer the original of “Cry Me a River” - but Susan’s version is still lovely.

& Simon has given a standing ovation - to dance troupe Flawless. Check out their clip on You Tube - they are truly amazing.

Edit; & I have seen Piers & Simon in action on respectively, Americas Got Talent & American Idol. I’ve watched a few clips of BGT on Youtube now - Brit dopers - are they gentler on this show?

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**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/114 "2009-04-17T22:56:14Z")

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I loved her rendition of ‘Cry Me A River’ she definitely has talent and I wish her the best.

I stopped watching all reality and talent-search programs years ago but I’m not really surprised with the initial reaction from the judges. They seem to get hundreds/thousands of applicants each year who’re entirely self deluded about their own ‘talent’. Experience has made them cynical, I can’t really blame them for that.

They still need to treat people with respect of course and they apologised for their rudeness.

Amanda Holden is still a hottie too… Ahh, fond memories…

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**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\
**Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/115 "2009-04-17T23:34:45Z")

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Cry Me A River was beautiful. Part of the surprise for me was that even though I knew when I first saw the clip that she had to be good, I think I expected her to be good in a brassy Ethel Merman kind of style. I’d buy her CD.

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**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/116 "2009-04-18T00:04:02Z")

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> [@rocking\_chair](#):
>
> when i first heard the story it reminded me of the song harry chapin sang about the guy who was a big singing fish in his small town.
> 
> the people in the town all loved to hear him sing and told him he should try for the big time. so of course he tried. got horrid reviews and went back to the small town. wouldn’t sing in public again.
> 
> it seems ms boyle has the raw talent to get out of the small town. i hope she does well and is able to have a good time with everything.

\<bit of a hijack\>

The song is Mr. Tanner and yeah, it’s one of the songs that made me bawl the first time I heard it.

(I’m not sure if it’s okay to link to lyrics sites?) So here’s the first bit:

\*Mister Tanner was a cleaner from a town in the Midwest.  
And of all the cleaning shops around he’d made his the best.  
But he also was a baritone who sang while hanging clothes.  
He practiced scales while pressing tails and sang at local shows.  
His friends and neighbors praised the voice that poured out from his throat.  
They said that he should use his gift instead of cleaning coats.

But music was his life, it was not his livelihood,  
and it made him feel so happy and it made him feel so good.  
And he sang from his heart and he sang from his soul.  
He did not know how well he sang; It just made him whole.  
\*

Google it. And if you don’t know who Harry Chapin is…shame on you! ☹

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**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/117 "2009-04-18T00:20:34Z")

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> [@MJinks](#):
>
> I stopped watching all reality and talent-search programs years ago but I’m not really surprised with the initial reaction from the judges. They seem to get hundreds/thousands of applicants each year who’re entirely self deluded about their own ‘talent’. Experience has made them cynical, I can’t really blame them for that.

I agree. I think everyone is being a little too hard on the audience. Experience has shown time and again that if a contestant looks and acts kind of like a ‘character’, which Susan certainly did with her hip rotations and head nods, they are usually lousy and just there on a lark. So the audience wasn’t buying her as a genuine talent at all, and why would they? But she had scarcely sung five words before they were yelling and whistling and applauding, and they were on their feet by the time she was thirty seconds into the song and they stayed there.

In short, they were eager and enthusiastic about her and in giving her her very well-deserved props from virtually the instant she began to sing.

To me this does not mean that they were a mean-spirited audience at all but one that had learned from past experience not to expect much from a contestant who didn’t appear to be a serious contender, and who were more than happy to cheer and applaud her remarkable talent once they found out they were wrong. I actually think their behavior speaks very well of them.

> [@MJinks](#):
>
> Amanda Holden is still a hottie too…

FWIW, I don’t think ‘hottie’ even begins to describe that woman. 😃

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/118 "2009-04-18T00:24:42Z")

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> [@Ximenean](#):
>
> I think some of of you are not quite appreciating the depths of cynicism that programmes such as Britain’s Got Talent are capable of. All the Lonely Spinster stuff - they will ramp that up to the maximum. The costume and make-up people probably went out of their way to make her look as dowdy as possible. Another potential Ugly Duckling fairy tale, hoorah. It does make for good telly, I’ll give you that.

> [@Hedda\_Rosa](#):
>
> Also, these shows thrive on the terrible audition schtick…at least I guess that Britain’s Got Talent does, as all of the US shows do.
> 
> They set up Susan Boyle to be one of those self-deluded crazies who tries out and is terrible. Instead she is wonderful. It makes for a great moment.

All the contestants on ‘X Factor’\* and ‘Britain’s got talent’ are carefully screened before any of them perform. Their back stories are recorded and the running order carefully chosen. (For example, the ‘last contestant in each city’ is always quality with something interesting about them.)  
The only ones they show on TV are the really dire and the very good.  
And the judges know precisely who is coming on and how good they are.

You can see this for example, by the questions the judges ask.

Judge “How do you get on at school?”  
Contestant “I get bullied a lot about my rehearsing.”  
Judge “Well they’ll be ashamed of themselves now.”

As for Simon looking ‘surprised’ and ‘eating crow’, he knows exactly when the camera is on a close-up of him and simply acts accordingly.  
\*UK equivalent of American Idol

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/119 "2009-04-18T00:33:43Z")

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> [@glee](#):
>
> All the contestants on ‘X Factor’\*…
> 
> \*UK equivalent of American Idol

The UK equivalent of “American Idol” - and all “Idol” shows everywhere in the world - was “Pop Idol.”

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\
**Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britains-got-talent-meets-les-miserables/492906/120 "2009-04-18T00:37:35Z")

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> [@RickJay](#):
>
> The UK equivalent of “American Idol” - and all “Idol” shows everywhere in the world - was “Pop Idol.”

Ah yes, that’s how it began.  
But Simon Cowell didn’t own all the rights, so he set up X Factor to take over the slot:

“Simon Fuller’s company, 19 TV is issuing writs against Simon Cowell, his firms Simco and Syco and Fremantle media for breach of copyright and contract. The gist of it all is that the X Factor format is a rip off of Pop Idol and that lots of the X Factor production crew also worked on Pop Idol.”

[http://popidolwatch.co.uk/](http://popidolwatch.co.uk/)

So the \*\*current UK equivalent \*\*of ‘American Idol’ is ‘X factor’…

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