# BritDopers (and nosy foreigners) - Leaving the EU **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169 "2013-05-12T19:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/1 "2013-05-12T19:39:27Z")
For those unaware, the Conservative Party over here have promised a referendum on whether the UK should remain in the EU or not if they win the next election. If that referendum were held today, with only two options - remain in, or leave, how would you vote? Two cabinet ministers have unsurprisingly said they’d vote to leave. Separated poll into UK, other EU country citizens, citizen of a country not in the EU. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/2 "2013-05-12T20:16:44Z")
Other: England can leave the EU if they want. It might be more beneficial to Scotland, Wales, and N. Ireland to stay in. (Non-EU person; husband is British-but-not-English). ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/3 "2013-05-12T20:44:07Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Other: England can leave the EU if they want. It might be more beneficial to Scotland, Wales, and N. Ireland to stay in. (Non-EU person; husband is British-but-not-English). 😕 Surely, as things stand, the UK goes or stays as a whole. If Scotland becomes independent, which could happen, presumably it would be able to make its choice separately from England and the rest, but Welsh or Northern Irish (or Cornish, or whatever) independence are not in the offing in the foreseeable future. A vote on whether to leave the EU is not going to also be a vote about whether or not to break up the UK. Personally, from what I understand at present, I (an English person in England) would vote to stay in anyway, but I am open to being persuaded otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/4 "2013-05-12T21:18:43Z")
I love the EU. It doesn’t have to be perfect, we’re making it up as we go along. But it is just bloody cool. We’re so bloody cool the UNASUL want to be just like us! I stood outside the EP in Brussels last week and they have these panels right outside that show the history of the EU. I went all sentimental. Yeah, I know… I am the only one… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/5 "2013-05-12T21:24:12Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > 😕 Surely, as things stand, the UK goes or stays as a whole. Yes, as things stand, it would be as the whole UK. I was voting based on idealism, not reality. In reality, England-and-Wales functions pretty much as a single constituent nation of the UK in some respects, and it would take a lot more devolution before England and Wales could separate. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/6 "2013-05-12T22:54:04Z")
US Citizen. Britain should stay. Also Scotland and NI should stay in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Uther\_Penguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Uther\_Penguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uther_Penguin)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/7 "2013-05-13T00:04:29Z")
EU citizen but not British: The UK should stay in the EU. The EU is a great project with a flawed execution. Too much is decided by the aloof bureaucracy and not enough by the elected MEPs. IMO the big nations have bit more influence and power than necessary. The UK with its fine parliamentary tradition could and should lead the move to greater parliamentary power in the EU. Make the EuCommission fully responsible to the EuP, with the EuCauncil as a kind of House of Lords. But yes, if the power of French and German backroom dealers is reduced, then the power of their British counterparts would be, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/8 "2013-05-13T00:07:41Z")
The U.K.'s parliamentary tradition is not all that “fine”, really. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/9 "2013-05-13T02:27:42Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > The U.K.'s parliamentary tradition is not all that “fine”, really. No, I suppose not. Historically, it’s seriously flawed. But, I dunno - are there any major European nations with better histories? Do the French, Germans, Spanish, Portuguese or Italians get to lecture us on how to run a democracy? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/10 "2013-05-13T05:41:27Z")
> [@Celyn](#): > > The U.K.'s parliamentary tradition is not all that “fine”, really. Maybe not, but it has the longest tradition of constitutional government in the history of the world (since 1688) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/11 "2013-05-13T09:17:50Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Maybe not, but it has the longest tradition of constitutional government in the history of the world (since 1688) If by “constitutional government”, you mean the existence of legally binding documents that describe how government should be run, we’ve had that since [1100](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Liberties). Anyway, if there was a referendum tomorrow I’d abstain. Whilst membership in the EU as it currently stands is unsustainable, there should be the opportunity to renegotiate the terms of membership. I think the government has got this one spot on. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/12 "2013-05-13T09:28:29Z")
I’m British and I’d vote to stay in the EU. I can understand some complaints about EU migration, but I don’t think leaving the EU would actually solve that - are we really going to deport all the non-UK EU citizens currently here? Starbucks would have no staff! 😃 A lot of the EU laws about employment rights and human rights are massively helpful to those in the UK who have little personal power, and those are what I suspect the Tories really want out of. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/13 "2013-05-13T09:43:09Z")
British and voted to stay in the EU though the EU needs some serious reform, I like the idea of it but the current execution is not fit for purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/14 "2013-05-13T09:50:13Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Other: England can leave the EU if they want. It might be more beneficial to Scotland, Wales, and N. Ireland to stay in. (Non-EU person; husband is British-but-not-English). Yup. What the good doctor said. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > US Citizen. Britain should stay. Also Scotland and NI should stay in the UK. Okay, I’ll agree with that if England leaves the United Kingdom. (if we can keep Wales too please, that would be nice though) ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Clanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@Small\_Clanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Clanger)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/15 "2013-05-13T10:07:21Z")
English bloke in England. UKIP, right wing Tories and press want out. I vote stay in. Not necessarily because of that, but if that lot want out that badly there has to be something to staying in. It’s also something to position us a bit further from the USA (sorry guys). ---
**Author:** ![scareyfaerie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scareyfaerie/32/3135_2.png) [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/16 "2013-05-13T10:41:21Z")
UK resident - the EU isn’t perfect, it needs an overhaul in many areas but I think we are far too closely tied into it to leave now. ---
**Author:** ![glaeken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@glaeken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glaeken)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/17 "2013-05-13T10:56:27Z")
I am a UK citizen and I would certainly vote to stay in. I think it could be a huge risk to the UK to leave as I understand the EU is the biggest trading partner for the UK so what impact would the UK leaving the EU have on our economy? The reasons to leave all seem fairly xenophobic to me. What is worrying is if the Tory press all get behind the leave vote how that might play out. I think a lot of people could vote to leave without really understanding how it may impact them just because it is a fairly common sentiment to not like the EU interferring in the way the country is run. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/18 "2013-05-13T12:20:02Z")
Curiously I find myself in the minority on a poll here. I’m English but I’m working overseas. The ‘trade’ thing confuses me, plenty of countries are not in the EU but trade with the EU successfully. The US, China and Russia are the EU’s biggest trading partners. As to sentimentality; I lament the loss of the Lira, Franc, Mark, Drachma etc. Southern European countries are finding out not have their own independent central banks is crushing their economies, resulting in huge numbers of (especially young people) out of work. In regards to immigration, many countries put limits on the number of workers that are able to enter their borders. Just because we didn’t have unfettered immigration would not mean industries would have to suffer. If we had a points system like Australia, New Zealand, Canada etc we could have enough workers entering to fill where there are skills gaps but without adding to unemployment. Don’t get me wrong, I love Europe (especially Eastern Europe) and have traveled extensively in the region. I love the food, the people, the culture and the excellent infrastructure. I also have family from Poland, who emigrated in 1920. But the system in place is self-serving, and politicians and lawmakers unelected and unaccountable. It’s a huge black hole where billions are squandered each year, its accounts have never been satisfactorily audited. We signed up to a trade zone not political and fiscal union, what successful laws can Brussels put in place that serve pensioners in the Midlands? You could serve those pensioners much better by saving the (minimum figure published) £12,000,000/day it costs to be a member, by not having to bend to the laws and regulations coming from the EU. There can’t be a United States of Europe. The USofA share (mostly) a common language making it hugely easier for economic migration, they also share a lot culturally and historically, and have developed together under the same laws for several centuries. England has more in common with the US than with Lithuania (a beautiful country with friendly people), for goodness sake. I’m not particularly right wing, either, and definitely not a fan of UKIP. I also don’t think the major issue in the EU’s or UK’s future will be if the UK leaves or not, it has many more problems than just whether our Islands continue to be a part. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/19 "2013-05-13T12:28:22Z")
> [@Uther\_Penguin](#): > > EU citizen but not British: The UK should stay in the EU. > > The EU is a great project with a flawed execution. That’s exactly my opinion. I’ve admired the UK since I was a child but even I can’t defend their silly “one foot inside the EU, on foot outside”, its constant whining about Europe. The UK has a huge role to play in Europe, I would be delighted to see it rise up to that challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169/20 "2013-05-13T12:43:51Z")
British, some-time UKIP voter here (though not in the recent council elections - they didn’t have a candidate in my constituency. And I probably wouldn’t vote for them in a general election unless and until we have some form of PR/STV system). Apart from that, my views are roughly the same as **JustinC** ’s. I don’t have a strong view on the immigration issue so that’s not why I would vote to leave - I just can’t stand the endemic waste and corruption in both the EP and EC (particularly the latter, though). It should be noted that Norway and Switzerland are not EU members and they seem to have no problems with trade, balance of payments, and any number of other things. I have to say that I would not consider myself well-informed on the issue, and if and when the actual vote takes place I will take steps to rectify this before making my final decision. But I think it will take a lot to change my prevailing view that the EU is currently a vast waste of our time and money, on the whole. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-leaving-the-eu/658169.md?page=2)