# BritDopers (and nosy foreigners) - The general election 2010 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133 "2010-04-06T11:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/221 "2010-04-13T19:49:30Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > He doesn’t want to abolish them: he wants to abolish the Act and replace it with something he sees as more sensible. It’s an important difference. I just wish he’d give us details. He still needs to let us know what problem he intends to fix by doing this. It’s a PR stunt by someone who has worked in PR. Change! ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/222 "2010-04-13T23:41:14Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > From [here](http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Yourrightsandresponsibilities/DG_4002951) > > ```auto > > Human Rights Act > > The Human Rights Act 1998 gives further legal effect in the UK to the fundamental rights and freedoms contained in the European Convention on Human Rights. These rights not only impact matters of life and death, they also affect the rights you have in your everyday life: what you can say and do, your beliefs, your right to a fair trial and other similar basic entitlements. > > Most rights have limits to ensure that they do not unfairly damage other people's rights. However, certain rights – such as the right not to be tortured – can never be limited by a court or anybody else. > > You have the responsibility to respect other people's rights, and they must respect yours. > > Your human rights are: > > * the right to life > * freedom from torture and degrading treatment > * freedom from slavery and forced labour > * the right to liberty > * the right to a fair trial > * the right not to be punished for something that wasn't a crime when you did it > * the right to respect for private and family life > * freedom of thought, conscience and religion, and freedom to express your beliefs > * freedom of expression > * freedom of assembly and association > * the right to marry and to start a family > * the right not to be discriminated against in respect of these rights and freedoms > * the right to peaceful enjoyment of your property > * the right to an education > * the right to participate in free elections > * the right not to be subjected to the death penalty > > If any of these rights and freedoms are breached, you have a right to an effective solution in law, even if the breach was by someone in authority, such as, for example, a police officer. > > ``` > > One can only wonder about the motives of a party that wishes to repeal such an Act. The provision banning the death penalty is folly. Plus Labour after governing for thirteen years is well past the time to go. Hopefully Mr. Cameron will revitalize Britain and be a visionary leader in the mold of Thatcher or Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/223 "2010-04-13T23:43:31Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > I’m happy to leave it to our fellow forumers to decide for themselves. On that I am happy to agree. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The provision banning the death penalty is folly. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/224 "2010-04-13T23:49:08Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > On that I am happy to agree. > Why? Since those who take life should have their own taken away. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/225 "2010-04-13T23:54:48Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Since those who take life should have their own taken away. Should we be willing to also execute those innocent people who will inevitably be mistakenly convicted of such a crime? I mean, in those terms, the results of a mistaken killing later found out would be the killing in turn of (depending on how you apportion it) the executioner, the judge, the jury, etc.. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/226 "2010-04-13T23:55:09Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The provision banning the death penalty is folly. Except that Britain has already ratified the European Convention on Human Rights, so the death penalty is effectively banned in Britain except during wartime or under “imminent threat of war”. Nobody had been executed in Britain since 1964. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/227 "2010-04-14T00:05:31Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Since those who take life should have their own taken away. Since this is a thread about the election I’ll stay way from addressing the issue itself but throw in my opinion about how it relates; my view is, it doesn’t. No major party is calling for its reintroduction, it would probably be electoral suicide. Anecdotally (stats I’ve been able to find seem to be contradictory, but most place support at [around](http://www.metro.co.uk/news/747748-half-of-us-back-death-penalty) or [below](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1506834/Less-than-50pc-back-death-penalty.html) 50%) I don’t know anyone besides the ‘hang them and flog them’ brigade which seriously want it reintroduced, it’s got rather an association with [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Evans). Plus the UK would have to withdraw from the EU, which is a whole other bag of worms. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/228 "2010-04-14T00:08:52Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Should we be willing to also execute those innocent people who will inevitably be mistakenly convicted of such a crime? I mean, in those terms, the results of a mistaken killing later found out would be the killing in turn of (depending on how you apportion it) the executioner, the judge, the jury, etc.. Not anymore than a person who accidentally shoots a mailman, mistaking him for a robber. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Except that Britain has already ratified the European Convention on Human Rights, so the death penalty is effectively banned in Britain except during wartime or under “imminent threat of war”. > > Nobody had been executed in Britain since 1964. Well they ought to abolish that too until a more reasonable human rights bill is drawn up. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/229 "2010-04-14T00:11:28Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Not anymore than a person who accidentally shoots a mailman, mistaking him for a robber. Er, such a person might well open themselves up to a manslaughter or even murder charge. Did you mean your answer to be agreement? Edit: Also, we call them “postmen” here. Fact of the Day! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/230 "2010-04-14T00:15:46Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well they ought to abolish that too until a more reasonable human rights bill is drawn up. Which is to say, one which matches your views? :rolleyes: The death penalty is an anachronism. The civilized world is moving away from it. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/231 "2010-04-14T00:19:58Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Er, such a person might well open themselves up to a manslaughter or even murder charge. Did you mean your answer to be agreement? > > Edit: Also, we call them “postmen” here. Fact of the Day! 😉 Well lawsuits for them should be possible but that’s about it. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which is to say, one which matches your views? :rolleyes: The death penalty is an anachronism. The civilized world is moving away from it. Get over it. Perhaps they’re the ones in the wrong. Have you ever suspected that? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/232 "2010-04-14T00:23:44Z")
Yes. When I was about your age I thought death sentences for capital crimes were the most obvious concept imaginable. Then I grew up. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/233 "2010-04-14T00:25:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Well lawsuits for them should be possible but that’s about it. Presumably you don’t mean for “them”, because they will be dead. Lawsuits for the family, perhaps you mean? But the person accidentally shooting the postman isn’t simply open to civil charges, but _criminal_ ones. Hence the manslaughter and murder points I brought up. It seems very odd to me that you’re so very gung-ho about killing killers sometimes, and then open to lawsuits at the most for others. Anyway, back on topic, I think my big fear with the potential new human rights stuff is that because inevitably it’ll be controversial (and with what could well be a hung or close parliament, even worse than normal), it’ll be tricky to repeal and then pass a new one. I’m worried that they might well be split to make them easier to work with - leaving the worrying point that we might have no central overarching selection of rights at all. I don’t really look forward to coasting on lesser legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/234 "2010-04-14T00:42:28Z")
I am hugely tempted to vote for the [Monster Raving Loony Party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Monster_Raving_Loony_Party). Getting the rest of Europe to join the pound really does sound like the way forward to me. Otherwise, it has to be Lib Dem. Labour has proven incapable, and the Conservatives have far too many policies I fundamentally disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/235 "2010-04-14T06:58:08Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Hopefully Mr. Cameron will revitalize Britain and be a visionary leader in the mold of Thatcher or Reagan. He’s more of an Obama than a Thatcher. Thatcherites would likely class him as ‘utterly wet’. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/236 "2010-04-14T07:37:58Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Since those who take life should have their own taken away. Really? There was a pretty cool guy who lived 2,000 years ago. He said things like forgiveness were important and turning the other cheek. I think he also said something about only people without sin injuring a condemned man. Think his name was Heyzeus. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/237 "2010-04-14T09:07:01Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > From [here](http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Yourrightsandresponsibilities/DG_4002951) > > One can only wonder about the motives of a party that wishes to repeal such an Act. The problem is not the act itself, but the lawyers that twist those rights in order to gain unreasonable benefits for people. Pick up any daily newspaper (broadsheets included) in the UK and it is almost inevitable that there will be at least one article with someone claiming that x is an infringement of their human rights. I think that our rights need to be protected in law, I’m not sure that the human rights act is the right tool to do it. IIRC this law was put into place to prevent things like war crimes not to allow someone a payout because their internet connection was out for a couple fo days. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/238 "2010-04-14T09:20:06Z")
Manifestos of the three main parties: [Labour](http://www2.labour.org.uk/uploads/TheLabourPartyManifesto-2010.pdf) [Conservatives](http://media.conservatives.s3.amazonaws.com/manifesto/cpmanifesto2010_hires.pdf) [Liberal Democrats](http://issuu.com/libdems/docs/manifesto?mode=embed&layout=http%3A%2F%2Fskin.issuu.com%2Fv%2Flight%2Flayout.xml&showFlipBtn=true&proShowMenu=true) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/239 "2010-04-14T09:34:28Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > From [here](http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Yourrightsandresponsibilities/DG_4002951) > > ```auto > > Human Rights Act > > The Human Rights Act 1998 gives further legal effect in the UK to the fundamental rights and freedoms contained in the European Convention on Human Rights. These rights not only impact matters of life and death, they also affect the rights you have in your everyday life: what you can say and do, your beliefs, your right to a fair trial and other similar basic entitlements. > > Most rights have limits to ensure that they do not unfairly damage other people's rights. However, certain rights – such as the right not to be tortured – can never be limited by a court or anybody else. > > You have the responsibility to respect other people's rights, and they must respect yours. > > Your human rights are: > > * the right to life > * freedom from torture and degrading treatment > * freedom from slavery and forced labour > * the right to liberty > * the right to a fair trial > * the right not to be punished for something that wasn't a crime when you did it > * the right to respect for private and family life > * freedom of thought, conscience and religion, and freedom to express your beliefs > * freedom of expression > * freedom of assembly and association > * the right to marry and to start a family > * the right not to be discriminated against in respect of these rights and freedoms > * the right to peaceful enjoyment of your property > * the right to an education > * the right to participate in free elections > * the right not to be subjected to the death penalty > > If any of these rights and freedoms are breached, you have a right to an effective solution in law, even if the breach was by someone in authority, such as, for example, a police officer. > > ``` > > One can only wonder about the motives of a party that wishes to repeal such an Act. Weren’t all of these already long traditions in the UK anyway? I can’t see anything guaranteed by the act that wasn’t already a routine part of British life. Ironically, Freedom of Expression in the UK has been curtailed far more in the subsequent years since the act was introduced due to the War on Terror. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/240 "2010-04-14T10:26:54Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > He’s more of an Obama than a Thatcher. He desperately wishes he was like Obama; hence the “change” meme. There was also a point in which he invited comparisons to Tony Blair, but given that Blair is pretty much reviled by everyone in the UK these days he’s gone very quiet about that. > [@](#): > > Thatcherites would likely class him as ‘utterly wet’. Completely agree. And sadly if you’ve ever seen Nick Clegg standing near him, Clegg looks (physically) like a generic version to his name brand. Even wetter. On another note, the Conservatives have put up one of [these](http://www.flickr.com/photos/conservatives/4469610650/) near my house, which has made me very angry. I’ve had _quite_ enough of politicians trying to frighten me into voting for them, thank you. “Vote Tory or criminals will eat your children! Booga booga!” Argh… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=13)