# BritDopers (and nosy foreigners) - The general election 2010 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133 "2010-04-06T11:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/261 "2010-04-15T02:58:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He’s relying on bookmakers to assess the odds. Bet you they’re right, too. Well odds are though that the bookies get the info from the best available source: a survey asking randomly selected people all over the UK what they would vote if elections were held today, weighted for any number of demographic characteristics, published by pollsters. That’s where I’d put my money on! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/262 "2010-04-15T03:17:30Z")
Doubtful. More likely they’d use surveys of registered voters than randomly selected people. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/263 "2010-04-15T08:20:19Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Cameron/Osborne: Fiscal conservatives, more than they are letting on. Probably social liberals but I don’t think they are too interested in those issues I’m getting a strong vibe from the manifesto that they’re actually libertarian socialists. > [@Villa](#): > > What Labour has done over the last decade or so (and I’m not a huge fan of it) pales in comparison to the destruction that Thatcher wrought on the fabric of my country Except Thatcher left Britain a vastly better place. Her methods caused a great deal of pain - and IMHO were exacerbated by the unions - but the results are unarguable. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/264 "2010-04-15T08:37:03Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Except Thatcher left Britain a vastly better place. Her methods caused a great deal of pain - and IMHO were exacerbated by the unions - but the results are unarguable. What a silly thing to say… of course the results are arguable, it just depends on what position you are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/265 "2010-04-15T08:45:03Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Except Thatcher left Britain a vastly better place. For some. > [@Quartz](#): > > Her methods caused a great deal of pain . For others, particularly those who didn’t matter. > [@Quartz](#): > > - and IMHO were exacerbated by the unions . They should have just bent over and taken it, I guess. > [@Quartz](#): > > - but the results are unarguable. Completely unarguable. She ripped the heart and soul out of British society. But then again, society is a dirty word, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/266 "2010-04-15T08:53:41Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > you seriously rely on betters to assess how 500+ \*individual races \*are going to pan out over the next coming months? They don’t 'put their money where their mouths are, they put it where the polls say they should put it - and rightly so, because it is the best information they have to go buy (if still imperfect): far better than either their own voting preference (why would you follow that if your a Labour or a LibDem voter and you know you’re going to lose?) or whatever the people around you IRL or on message boards are saying they’re going to vote. I’m thinking of the infamous polling in 1992, which badly underestimated Tory support. Because, the theory goes, people were reluctant to publicly admit that they were going to vote Tory. The pollsters probably claim they have addressed that issue, but who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/267 "2010-04-15T09:04:08Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Completely unarguable. She ripped the heart and soul out of British society. But then again, society is a dirty word, isn’t it? I kinda-sorta agree with you but you’re completely misrepresenting that speech. Regarding the political betting, the undisputed place to go for this is [www.politicalbetting.com](http://www.politicalbetting.com). It’s run by a former lib dem candidate and is very well respected - as a political blog as well. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/268 "2010-04-15T09:09:16Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Completely unarguable. She ripped the heart and soul out of British society. But then again, society is a dirty word, isn’t it? In the 70s, Britain was the Sick Man of Europe. Denis Haley had had to call in the IMF. Strikes here, there, and everywhere. The state running many sclerotic industries. Remember having to wait for weeks or months to get a telephone installed? When she left, Britain was vibrant and prosperous. Major muffed it, then Brown & Blair fritterred it away. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/269 "2010-04-15T09:20:15Z")
And she had guts too! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/270 "2010-04-15T09:22:49Z")
Thatcher made a lot of necessary changes but she also made a lot of unnecessary ones and she made them with callous disregard for the fallout to anyone below a certain income level. I can certainly understand why so many people still hate her with a passion. I wasn’t in the country at the time but I have no sympathy for the days of unions holding the country to ransom (which is why I loathe Bob Crow); however, her method of dealing with it by selling off public industries to her cronies at vastly undervalued prices strikes me as not really having the country’s best interests at heart, ultimately. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/271 "2010-04-15T09:27:19Z")
Yes, wasn’t she one of the first on the beaches when those Argies started threatening our wool production? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/272 "2010-04-15T09:38:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Thatcher made a lot of necessary changes but she also made a lot of unnecessary ones and she made them with callous disregard for the fallout to anyone below a certain income level. I can certainly understand why so many people still hate her with a passion. > > I wasn’t in the country at the time but I have no sympathy for the days of unions holding the country to ransom (which is why I loathe Bob Crow); however, her method of dealing with it by selling off public industries to her cronies at vastly undervalued prices strikes me as not really having the country’s best interests at heart, ultimately. And let’s not forget spending the windfall of North Sea Oil revenue to keep people unemployed to smash the unions, rather than investing it into manufacturing industry. While at the same time cultivating the City culture that led to the recent world financial collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/273 "2010-04-15T09:49:53Z")
That’s ridiculous. No government wants to keep unemployment high, it’s not exactly a vote-winner. As for the “recent world financial collapse”, that was the collapse of a bubble that developed long after Thatcher left office. Much of the hatred towards Thatcher is based on myth. For example, public spending actually increased in real terms throughout her administration. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/274 "2010-04-15T09:56:04Z")
If you want to break unions, you keep unemployment high. Nothing (tolerable in a Parliamentary democracy) puts the dampers on worker solidarity more than high and persistant unemployment. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/275 "2010-04-15T10:17:15Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > That’s ridiculous. No government wants to keep unemployment high, it’s not exactly a vote-winner. As for the “recent world financial collapse”, that was the collapse of a bubble that developed long after Thatcher left office. > Much of the hatred towards Thatcher is based on myth. For example, public spending actually increased in real terms throughout her administration. But the mindset that lead to that collapse was created, in part, by Thatcher and her cronies and perpetuated by Major, Blair and Brown. Of whom the least culpable seems to be Major due to his weak government. Additionally by either destroying or selling off our manufacturing capacity the Thatcher government created the environment where the markets are king and the major way of making money is through the city. This also helped lead to our current situation. As an aside, for me it looks like a Labour victory is likely for several reasons including: 1. UKIP are actively taking votes away from Tory candidates making it likely that either the Libs or Labour could take the seats. 2. I don’t yet have a cite for this but I was told yesterday that due to the way the ward boundaries are set up even if the Conservatives get 6% more of the votes proportionally Labour would still have more seats overall. As a Liberal leaning voter I say bring on PR. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/276 "2010-04-15T13:26:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > selling off public industries to her cronies at vastly undervalued prices strikes me as not really having the country’s best interests at heart, ultimately. Aren’t you thinking of Tony Blair? (DERA / Qinetiq, anyone?) When Mrs Thatcher privatised the state industries (BT, British Gas, etc), anyone could buy shares. And lots of people did. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/277 "2010-04-15T13:31:36Z")
I thought maybe he meant Boris Yeltsin… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/278 "2010-04-15T13:54:45Z")
If I were one of Nick Cldegg’s advisors, I’d tell him to play up the major discontent with both Labour and the Tories at this point in time, and say, in effect, “A lot of people feel that voting LibDem is wasting their vote. That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, and it doesn’t have to be. Talk to your neighbours, and see if they don’t feel the same. And if enough of you agree that we present a good alternative to government by the Left or government by the Right, then you can make a change, working together to shift Britain’s political landscape back from lurching between two extremes.” ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/279 "2010-04-15T14:01:37Z")
Sounds plausible, but I’d still rather go for guys who have a little experience of a running country, even if it is into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/280 "2010-04-15T14:08:58Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > If I were one of Nick Cldegg’s advisors, I’d tell him to play up the major discontent with both Labour and the Tories at this point in time, and say, in effect, “A lot of people feel that voting LibDem is wasting their vote. That’s a self-fulfilling prophecy, and it doesn’t have to be. Talk to your neighbours, and see if they don’t feel the same. And if enough of you agree that we present a good alternative to government by the Left or government by the Right, then you can make a change, working together to shift Britain’s political landscape back from lurching between two extremes.” The Lib Dems say that every election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=15)