# BritDopers (and nosy foreigners) - The general election 2010 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133 "2010-04-06T11:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/121 "2010-04-09T01:39:13Z")
Yikes! 60% Tory 59% Labor 49% LibDem 41% Green 35% UKIP 25% BNP In the US, I am pretty far left, and I am a minority (South Asian) to boot. This must be an indication of how far right US politics are compared with the UK. Or this site is seriously croaked. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/122 "2010-04-09T02:18:11Z")
[From _The Nation:_](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100426/younge) > [@](#): > > **Labour’s Fighting Chance** > > _Beneath the Radar_ > > By Gary Younge > > _This article appeared in the April 26, 2010 edition of The Nation._ > > April 7, 2010 > > In a period of extreme economic volatility, 2010 was supposed to hold some electoral certainties. To the extent that elections in Western democracies are about choices–a debatable proposition–the decision had been made before a single ballot was cast. This was the conservatives’ year. Every mainstream pundit called it; every poll confirmed it. The vote would be a mere formality. The debate, such as it was, revolved not around the likelihood of a right-wing victory but the scale of the liberal defeat. As winter turned to spring, however, new possibilities sprouted, and the electoral landscape was drastically transformed. By Easter, center-left fortunes had risen from the dead. By the time Passover had come and gone, conventional wisdom had rarely seemed less wise. > > I refer not to commentary about the Obama administration in the run-up to the midterms but Gordon Brown’s forthcoming election in Britain, announced on April 6. An election that was long assumed to be a foregone conclusion has turned into an extremely close contest. Six months ago Labour was seventeen points behind in the polls and heading for a rout; today it trails by as low as four points and is in serious contention. > > \ > > So what happened? Two developments are broadly responsible for the turnaround. First, voters took a harder look at the Conservatives and didn’t like what they saw. This was not for want of trying. With a new, young leader, David Cameron, and a less xenophobic agenda, the Tories have made a great effort to shed their reputation as the “nasty party.” But they seemed to relish the prospect of slashing public spending, made a series of gaffes and have struggled to shake off the image of being the party of the rich (Cameron went to Eton and Oxford, where he was a member of the Bullingdon Club–an exclusive high-society fraternity whose members routinely drank themselves into a stupor, trashed the restaurants that hosted them, then paid for the damage in full, in cash). > > Second, for the first time in two decades Labour took a look over its left shoulder and realized what could be gained. In the past two years it has raised taxes on the rich, and in March it raised the transfer tax on expensive houses to subsidize first-time buyers. In 2006 Brown had praised bankers for inventing “the most modern instruments of finance.” A year later he thanked them for creating “an era that history will record as the beginning of a new Golden Age.” Within a year the financial system was in collapse. Now he is the primary advocate for a global tax on banks that could reap billions a year. “The relationship between banks and society has to change,” he told the _Financial Times_ recently. ---
**Author:** ![Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Planet\_of\_the\_Shapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Planet_of_the_Shapes)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/123 "2010-04-09T11:19:27Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Yikes! > > 60% Tory > > 59% Labor > > 49% LibDem > > 41% Green > > 35% UKIP > > 25% BNP > > In the US, I am pretty far left, and I am a minority (South Asian) to boot. This must be an indication of how far right US politics are compared with the UK. > > Or this site is seriously croaked. Its an indication of how far right US politics is. Left wing US is probably centre / centre right here. What might freak you out a bit is that the UK is pretty right wing compared to continental europe. You’d be far right there! I consider myself centre left here, and i got Green 72%, Lib Dem 70%, Labour 56%, UKIP 45%, Tory 34%, BNP 29%. Surprised Green was top, although to be honest i don’t know much about their policies. I find myself agreeing with the Lib Dems the most out of all the major parties, and they’re who i’ll probably vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/124 "2010-04-09T12:00:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [From _The Nation:_](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100426/younge) The idea that people are seriously considering voting Labour again is absolutely terrifying. They’ve taken sleaze to a level that the Tories never reached, embroiled us in two needless wars killing hundreds of thousands (and yes, both of those were Brown’s wars as much as Blair’s), in the course of which the snakes leading them repeatedly lied to Parliament and the nation, and completely fucked the economy then squandered the money that should have been saved to spend us out of the “Great Recession” (of course, the labour party faithful are still convinced Brown is the best chancellor we’ve ever had). The clincher? The absolute worst aspect? _Mandelson_ is back in government and arguably the second most powerful man in the country despite never being elected! Hey! But that’s OK as long as we don’t elect ex-public school boys (ignoring the majority of the Labour front bench who were educated at many of the same establishments :rolleyes:) ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/125 "2010-04-09T12:16:54Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Here’s a good policy matching site: [http://www.votematch.org.uk/](http://www.votematch.org.uk/) (not sure if it has any inherent bias). > > Apparently I’m 55% Lib Dem, 46% Tory, and 28% Labour. > > Quite surprised at my toriness… Anyone fancy bashing an oik with me this weekend, rah rah? Green 62% Lib Dem 58% Labour 58% Tory 34% No idea how that happened. I even clearly stated I was pro the building of new nuclear power stations. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/126 "2010-04-09T12:22:29Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > The idea that people are seriously considering voting Labour again is absolutely terrifying. They’ve taken sleaze to a level that the Tories never reached, embroiled us in two needless wars killing hundreds of thousands (and yes, both of those were Brown’s wars as much as Blair’s), in the course of which the snakes leading them repeatedly lied to Parliament and the nation, and completely fucked the economy then squandered the money that should have been saved to spend us out of the “Great Recession” (of course, the labour party faithful are still convinced Brown is the best chancellor we’ve ever had). The clincher? The absolute worst aspect? _Mandelson_ is back in government and arguably the second most powerful man in the country despite never being elected! > > Hey! But that’s OK as long as we don’t elect ex-public school boys (ignoring the majority of the Labour front bench who were educated at many of the same establishments :rolleyes:) Well, to be honest, it is due to the terrible effects of the Thatcher years, from which the UK has never recovered, that the UK has changed in such a way that a true Labour Party doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/127 "2010-04-09T13:06:11Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Well, to be honest, it is due to the terrible effects of the Thatcher years, from which the UK has never recovered, that the UK has changed in such a way that a true Labour Party doesn’t exist. Or an alternative viewpoint is that in the Thatcher years the country was turned around from the compete shithole it was in the 70s (and it was) and the Labour party realized (eventually, after a dalliance with Foot as leader) that they had to modernize to attract the voters and, yes, had to adopt some of the policies that had helped turn the country around. And so Labour became Tory-Lite. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/128 "2010-04-09T13:12:41Z")
Blotted though Labour’s copy book is, the right question to ask when you’re voting is not “Do I want to punish the current government?” but “Who’s going to do the best for the country over the next 4-5 years?”. The best demonstration of this principle is the 1945 election, when widely admired charismatic saviour of Britain, Winston Churchill, was voted out to be replaced with a Labour party who set up the Welfare State and the NHS - because that’s what people felt was needed at that time. So even people disheartened with Labour can look at the Tories and think that despite the fact they’re “a change” they’d still be bad for the country. Especially when you consider that, for example, their MPs were no better than Labour over expenses, they voted for both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and they were even more pro-City, anti-regulation than Labour were in the boom years. But even that is looking backwards - the reason I’m considering voting Labour is because I genuinely don’t believe that the Tory economic policy will be good for the country. ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/129 "2010-04-09T13:16:34Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > They’ve … embroiled us in two needless wars killing hundreds of thousands That’s my biggest gripe with Labour. Of course, the Tories were pro-war too. It’s a big plus for the Lib Dems in my view that they were against the war. I’m just annoyed that they don’t have a chance in my area where the fight will be between Labour, Tories and Respect. Labour’s a no-brainer in that choice. ---
**Author:** ![Elvis\_Chimney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/50afbb/32.png) [@Elvis\_Chimney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elvis_Chimney)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/130 "2010-04-09T13:19:30Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Well, to be honest, it is due to the terrible effects of the Thatcher years, from which the UK has never recovered, that the UK has changed in such a way that a true Labour Party doesn’t exist. It’s true that the Labour Party has done a number of really terrible things since 1997 - Iraq, ID cards, and the economy amongst them, then you might well never think about voting for them again. My thoughts on this though, are that a Conservative government would have enthusiastically pursued every one of these things - the only difference being that the Labour party at least had the decency to be conflicted about it. And no, that doesn’t absolve Labour of their multitude of sins, but it does give me reason to believe that, under a Conservative government, we’d be even worse off. Choosing the lesser of two evils is a fairly rubbish situation to be in, but until we see electoral reform that’s the choice we’re stuck with. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/131 "2010-04-09T13:31:38Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > …in my area… the fight will be between Labour, Tories and Respect. Labour’s a no-brainer in that choice. I’d never heard of Respect before this - thanks. Now I know more: [Respect Party - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect_Party) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/132 "2010-04-09T13:34:31Z")
> [@Elvis\_Chimney](#): > > It’s true that the Labour Party has done a number of really terrible things since 1997 - Iraq, ID cards, and the economy amongst them, then you might well never think about voting for them again. The Tories were _for_ ID cards? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/133 "2010-04-09T13:38:59Z")
First dreamt up by Michael Howard, no less. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/134 "2010-04-09T13:41:48Z")
_Googles_ Wow. So it was. Not even as a security measure. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/135 "2010-04-09T13:43:41Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Well, to be honest, it is due to the terrible effects of the Thatcher years, from which the UK has never recovered, that the UK has changed in such a way that a true Labour Party doesn’t exist. What is “due to the terrible effects of the Thatcher years”, and if the failure of those years was that obvious, why did Labour not just continue to endorse Thatcherism, but accelerate it, with the likes of public-private partnerships? Is this the Labour party’s main strategy, still? Still blaming their spectacular failures on things that happened the best part of 30 years ago? A party of jokers. Blaming Thatcherism also neatly ignores the reason why it was needed in the first place. Every time Labour gets into power they fuck this country up. [QUOTE=ColdPhoenix] That’s my biggest gripe with Labour. Of course, the Tories were pro-war too. [/quote] After being told that there’s SUPER SECRET but incontrovertible evidence that Hussein was a grave threat to national security, and could launch WMDs at us within a moments notice, by the Labour snakes in parliament. Of course they were going to vote for the war, as any vote against would have been turned against them by the Labour PR machine (Lib Dems, widely considered an irrelevance, not withstanding). Besides, did anybody really have any clue that we’d be nation building in Iraq the best part of a decade later? That wasn’t how the war was sold to the pubic, nor to parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/136 "2010-04-09T13:49:46Z")
It probably wasn’t sold to the public in that way neither, regardless of how it was sold to the pubic. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/137 "2010-04-09T13:56:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’d never heard of Respect before this - thanks. Now I know more: [Respect Party - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respect_Party) They’re mostly anti-war (which is good) and I agree with a number of what few other policies they have but their candidate for my area this time is George Galloway: > **[George Galloway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway)** > > George Galloway (born 16 August 1954) is a British politician, broadcaster, and writer. He has been leader of the Workers Party of Britain since he founded it in 2019, and is a former leader of the Respect Party. Until 2003, he was a member of the Labour Party. From 1987 to 2010, from 2012 to 2015, and briefly in 2024, Galloway served as Member of Parliament (MP) for five different constituencies. > Galloway was born in Dundee, Scotland. After becoming the youngest ever chair of the Scottish L... He’s always seemed a bit loony to me and the image of him dressed up as a cat pretending to lick milk on Celebrity Big Brother is how I’ll always remember him (and where I lost all respect for him). ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/138 "2010-04-09T14:01:52Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > After being told that there’s SUPER SECRET but incontrovertible evidence that Hussein was a grave threat to national security, and could launch WMDs at us within a moments notice, by the Labour snakes in parliament. Of course they were going to vote for the war, as any vote against would have been turned against them by the Labour PR machine (Lib Dems, widely considered an irrelevance, not withstanding). Besides, did anybody really have any clue that we’d be nation building in Iraq the best part of a decade later? That wasn’t how the war was sold to the pubic, nor to parliament. Even after it was clear there were no WMD the Tories still said that going to war had been the right decision. It’s one of the few things they applauded Labour for. > **[BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cameron backs Blair on Iraq war](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5108584.stm)** > > Conservative leader David Cameron says he still thinks going to war in Iraq was the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/139 "2010-04-09T14:03:25Z")
They seriously want to renationalise the railways? Holy shit! Maybe they can bring back the cattle wagons BR used to provide for us to ride around in as a reminder of the good old days. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/140 "2010-04-09T14:44:45Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > They seriously want to renationalise the railways? Holy shit! Maybe they can bring back the cattle wagons BR used to provide for us to ride around in as a reminder of the good old days. I used to work for the Office of Passenger Rail Franchising (later the Strategic Rail Authority) and can report that while privatisation swept out a lot of the old BR crap that needed to go, it brought in a whole new bunch of crap. As with pretty much all the PPP initiatives of the Brown-as-Chancellor years, they were sold as transferring the risk and costs to the private sector and the profits to the public sector. In practice this always worked out the other way around. Of course, the way in which the infrastructure was sold off was even worse and a recipe for utter disaster (as indeed it proved to be). That said, I wouldn’t vote for Galloway even if he offered me a diamond-studded pony. He’s a slick political scrapper but not to be trusted any further than you could spit him. You may or may not remember his appearance in front of the US Congress in which he basically revealed them to be a bunch of lying crooks attempting to use forged documents to link him to Saddam Hussein, which only served to demonstate that when George Galloway holds the moral high ground, everyone else must have sunk deep into the Earth’s mantle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=8)