# BritDopers (and nosy foreigners) - The general election 2010 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2010, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133 "2010-04-06T11:13:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/141 "2010-04-09T15:57:27Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > They’re mostly anti-war (which is good) and I agree with a number of what few other policies they have but their candidate for my area this time is George Galloway: > [George Galloway - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway) > > He’s always seemed a bit loony to me and the image of him dressed up as a cat pretending to lick milk on Celebrity Big Brother is how I’ll always remember him (and where I lost all respect for him). A bit loony is right, but not just for his ridiculous Big Brother appearance. The man is a damned apologist for Islamic extremism. Starting with [grovelling at the feet of Saddam](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIy_GmvUElE) in 1994 (and lying about it ever since), years after he had violated the sovereignty of Kuwait and gassed Kurds in Halabja. He also said that it would be [“morally justified” and “entirely logical and explicable”](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5020222.stm) for Tony Blair to be assassinated, [supports](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLY1VZZsA5w&feature=related) [Hamas](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLycQ5Jm8u8) and [Hezbollah](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYFoHX5kopI) and calling [this man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah), a Holocaust denier and man who believes people should be killed for writing novels or drawing cartoons, a “very great man indeed.” You can’t be a serious person and cast a vote for this man’s party, it’s simply not possible. He is an extreme left-wing fringe crackpot. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/142 "2010-04-09T16:26:47Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > He also said that it would be [“morally justified” and “entirely logical and explicable”](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5020222.stm) for Tony Blair to be assassinated… That’s not _exactly_ a crackpot idea; nobody described “taking out Saddam” as a crackpot idea. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/143 "2010-04-09T16:33:40Z")
Proposing it for the head of government in your own parliamentary democracy, in which you are yourself an elected official, is most _definitely_ a crackpot idea. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/144 "2010-04-09T16:38:57Z")
Well, there is that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/145 "2010-04-09T16:43:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s not _exactly_ a crackpot idea; nobody described “taking out Saddam” as a crackpot idea. Well, say what you like about Blair, but only in the mind of the most paranoid fantasist was he remotely comparable to Saddam. I also don’t think any statesmen in the coalition (although I may be wrong) was arguing that Saddam be _assassinated_, it’s been an understanding for centuries that even in wars you don’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/146 "2010-04-09T16:46:12Z")
I tried the survey, leaving out the fringe parties: Liberal Democrats: 56% Green Party: 51% Conservative Party: 48% Labour Party: 41% I’m amazed that I was put closer to the Tories than to Labour, but I guess the other rankings don’t really surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![Elvis\_Chimney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/50afbb/32.png) [@Elvis\_Chimney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elvis_Chimney)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/147 "2010-04-09T16:48:27Z")
This is quite an interesting site (although clearly with an agenda): > **[Discover how much power you have as a UK voter in your constituency](http://www.voterpower.org.uk/)** > > In the UK, the only voters with any real power to choose the government are those who live in marginal constituencies. Less than 20% of constituencies can be considered marginal.The rest of us have little or no power to influence the outcome of the... Calculates the power of your vote in a first-past-the-post system based on how safe your seat is. I moved to a new flat a few streets away earlier this year and it seems that in doing so I also moved constituency. Turns out that in moving, my vote became a lot weaker. Old: [Voter Power Index results for Edinburgh North & Leith](http://www.voterpower.org.uk/edinburgh-north-leith) New: [Voter Power Index results for Edinburgh East](http://www.voterpower.org.uk/edinburgh-east) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/148 "2010-04-09T17:01:14Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > The man is a damned apologist for Islamic extremism. Starting with [grovelling at the feet of Saddam](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIy_GmvUElE) in 1994 while I don’t dispute the rectitude of any of your Galloway hate, I just have to point out, if it needs pointing out again, that Saddam Hussein was not an Islamic extremist in the commonly understood meaning of the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/149 "2010-04-09T17:04:50Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > A bit loony is right, but not just for his ridiculous Big Brother appearance. The man is a damned apologist for Islamic extremism. Starting with [grovelling at the feet of Saddam](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIy_GmvUElE) in 1994 (and lying about it ever since), years after he had violated the sovereignty of Kuwait and gassed Kurds in Halabja. He also said that it would be [“morally justified” and “entirely logical and explicable”](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5020222.stm) for Tony Blair to be assassinated, [supports](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLY1VZZsA5w&feature=related) [Hamas](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLycQ5Jm8u8) and [Hezbollah](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYFoHX5kopI) and calling [this man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah), a Holocaust denier and man who believes people should be killed for writing novels or drawing cartoons, a “very great man indeed.” > > You can’t be a serious person and cast a vote for this man’s party, it’s simply not possible. He is an extreme left-wing fringe crackpot. How come he got elected then? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/150 "2010-04-09T17:15:04Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > while I don’t dispute the rectitude of any of your Galloway hate, I just have to point out, if it needs pointing out again, that Saddam Hussein was not an Islamic extremist in the commonly understood meaning of the phrase. He wasn’t an Islamic extremist in any commonly understood meaning of the phrase. He abolished sharia courts and replaced them with Western-style secular courts; he was generally much nicer to women than any other Arab leader. Hell, they were even allowed to vote and hold government office… that is, assuming they were Ba’ath Party members. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/151 "2010-04-09T17:31:30Z")
I scored pretty close between Labour and LibDem, though I’d probably vote LibDem because the name is so cool. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/152 "2010-04-09T17:34:08Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > How come he got elected then? He stood in a deprived ward with a high BME voter pool, a group who are likely to vote for a candidate with strong anti-war views. Plus some of his wilder assertions have come since his election. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/153 "2010-04-09T17:34:45Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > How come he got elected then? His constituency has a high muslim population and he was elected at the height of Iraq war anger amongst the populace. He was a one ticket candidate. His ward is traditionally Labour, so it was a protest against the government, and as a former Labour politician, there may have been a bit of ‘he’s ex-Labour AND anti-war, so probably represents our views best’. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/154 "2010-04-09T17:55:57Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > What is “due to the terrible effects of the Thatcher years”, and if the failure of those years was that obvious, why did Labour not just continue to endorse Thatcherism, but accelerate it, with the likes of public-private partnerships? Is this the Labour party’s main strategy, still? Still blaming their spectacular failures on things that happened the best part of 30 years ago? A party of jokers. > > Blaming Thatcherism also neatly ignores the reason why it was needed in the first place. Every time Labour gets into power they fuck this country up. Because what people aren’t realising is that I am not talking about simple concepts like “state of the schools/economy/health service” but rather than somewhat less tangible concept of the national mindset. I am of the opinion that the greed that became so prevalent in the 1980s affected everyone to such a degree that there is no real social conscience anymore in the UK. Everyone simply cares about me, me, me and be damned with anyone else. The socialist parties like Labour used to be ones with that social conscience and I can’t help but feel that as they have distanced themselves from it it shows how far the national mentality is changed. I would argue that the country in which I live now, Sweden, is due to the more socialist nature far more socially aware. People care about each other more and I feel far more at home in that sort of environment. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/155 "2010-04-09T18:24:36Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > while I don’t dispute the rectitude of any of your Galloway hate, I just have to point out, if it needs pointing out again, that Saddam Hussein was not an Islamic extremist in the commonly understood meaning of the phrase. You are correct, of course. What I meant was he is an apologist in the sense that he excuses terrorism by claiming it is entirely the fault of the west (which doesn’t explain things like the Casablanca bombings or why Sunni and Shi’a in Iraq blow up each others mosques, like the al-Askari). The fact that he kissed Saddam’s behind is rather a separate point. > [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > How come he got elected then? I’d echo the points made by **Wallenstein** and **SanVito** , as well as adding the old saying that in a democracy people get the governments they deserve. I think voters when we was first elected were largely uniformed. There were no doubt many who genuinely agree with him, he was the ultimate protest vote against Labour. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/156 "2010-04-10T13:28:45Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I used to work for the Office of Passenger Rail Franchising (later the Strategic Rail Authority) and can report that while privatisation swept out a lot of the old BR crap that needed to go, it brought in a whole new bunch of crap. As with pretty much all the PPP initiatives of the Brown-as-Chancellor years, they were sold as transferring the risk and costs to the private sector and the profits to the public sector. In practice this always worked out the other way around. Of course, the way in which the infrastructure was sold off was even worse and a recipe for utter disaster (as indeed it proved to be). I’m going to be honest, I don’t really care. All I know is every time I use a Virgin train it arrives and leaves on time, and is modern and at least looks like it’s been cleaned this decade. Same with the rail links between Glasgow and Edinburgh. We’ve got the most regular intercity services in the world, and have a punctuality rate of ~91% (up to 5 min delay for local services, 10 min for national, compared to ~95% in Switzerland, a country famed for its punctuality). Punctuality and delays were bad for a while, yes, but this ignores the massive reconstruction projects on large sections of track (like the West Coast mainline). Whatever’s happening seems to be working. The idea that we should consider wholesale renationalisation is absurd, and enough to write any candidate off as a 1970s style ideologue. Moaning about trains is the national past time, yet we’ve never had it as good. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/157 "2010-04-10T14:30:07Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I am of the opinion that the greed that became so prevalent in the 1980s affected everyone to such a degree that there is no real social conscience anymore in the UK. Everyone simply cares about me, me, me and be damned with anyone else. At the risk of a hijack, I think you’re completely mistaken. It’s not greed but the idea that ‘the State’ should be doing something and it’s not up to you to do something, the abrogation of responsibility to the State. ‘Yes, I think it’s terrible and the State should do something about it.’ And then there’s the climate of fear: a man who approaches a woman is seen as a potential rapist, an adult who approaches a lone child is seen as a potential child molester / abductor. > [@](#): > > The socialist parties like Labour used to be ones with that social conscience and I can’t help but feel that as they have distanced themselves from it it shows how far the national mentality is changed. Again, is this not the Nanny State mentality? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/158 "2010-04-11T06:57:35Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > The idea that people are seriously considering voting Labour again is absolutely terrifying. They’ve taken sleaze to a level that the Tories never reached, embroiled us in two needless wars killing hundreds of thousands (and yes, both of those were Brown’s wars as much as Blair’s), in the course of which the snakes leading them repeatedly lied to Parliament and the nation, and completely fucked the economy then squandered the money that should have been saved to spend us out of the “Great Recession” (of course, the labour party faithful are still convinced Brown is the best chancellor we’ve ever had). The clincher? The absolute worst aspect? _Mandelson_ is back in government and arguably the second most powerful man in the country despite never being elected! > > Hey! But that’s OK as long as we don’t elect ex-public school boys (ignoring the majority of the Labour front bench who were educated at many of the same establishments :rolleyes:) Despite all that, my question to myself is would the Tories have fared any better, and is/was the Tory party any “cleaner”, and the answer is a firm “No”. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/159 "2010-04-11T22:18:01Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > You are correct, of course. What I meant was he is an apologist in the sense that he excuses terrorism by claiming it is entirely the fault of the west (which doesn’t explain things like the Casablanca bombings or why Sunni and Shi’a in Iraq blow up each others mosques, like the al-Askari). The fact that he kissed Saddam’s behind is rather a separate point. > I’d echo the points made by **Wallenstein** and **SanVito** , as well as adding the old saying that in a democracy people get the governments they deserve. I think voters when we was first elected were largely uniformed. There were no doubt many who genuinely agree with him, he was the ultimate protest vote against Labour. He won a whole series of elections over a couple of decades as part of two different political parties. How does a fringe crackpot win elections in multiple constituencies for multiple parties over a couple of decades? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133/160 "2010-04-12T02:25:35Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Our Conservatives stand for pretty much everything you despise in US politics threads - they’re just to the left of the US Democratic Party. Are you sure you support them? From most comments of yours elsewhere, I’d see you more as a parallel to a UKIP supporter. By the survey I got: > [@](#): > > Party > > UK Independence Party: > > ``` > 59% > > ``` > > Conservative Party: > > ``` > 51% > > ``` > > Labour Party: > > ``` > 21% > > ``` And I don’t want to take away votes from the Tories: if Britain can get back on its feet it needs a Conservative majority. > [@](#): > > Also, you seem to celebrate the English dominating the Scots and the Welsh and diminishing their autonomy - rather than commenting on the pros and cons of those parties’ policies. Why is that? Actually England’s the only part of the UK without it’s own parliament and England is not oppressive to Scotland or Wales. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/britdopers-and-nosy-foreigners-the-general-election-2010/535133.md?page=9)