# British add an "r" sound **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223 "2011-02-13T17:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/181 "2012-08-29T02:10:46Z")
I stand by my first post in this thread about two years ago that there should be an official SD column on this topic just to clear up the fact that it’s an intrusive r between vowel sounds, not an r randomly added to the ends of words ending in vowels. Ascenray’s right that, in most American accents I’ve heard, they simply go from one vowel to the other without any gap. I listen to them closely a lot in my work. Occasionally this makes things harder for me to understand, because I’m not used to it. British RP seems to me to be a bit more staccato overall than most American accents. > [@SCAdian](#): > > I’ve met a few people who say “Tyoosday,” but I’ve never heard anyone say “tyoona.” It’s standard British RP and standard in most other British dialects. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/182 "2012-08-29T03:06:36Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Their singing is not proof of qualities of british speech because they consciously altered how they sang to sound more american. a) Why would they do that? Many Americans think British accents are cool, and teenage girls especially do. I’m no expert in music history, but it seemed like being British helped record sales at that time. b) “Till There Was You” wasn’t their song, it was from an American musical, so they knew how Americans sang it. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/183 "2012-08-29T03:29:36Z")
Because they did. This is not exactly some obscure bit of Beatles trivia. So? I know how Adele sounds singing Rolling in the Deep. That doesn’t mean that if I sing it, I sound like her. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/184 "2012-08-29T03:31:54Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > I’ve always said “pawlm” and “tawk.” Was living in Illinois and had a visitor from Iowa. In the middle of a conversation she said, “You guys ‘tock’ funny.” The rest of us (who all say ‘tawk’) almost fell over laughing at this ridiculous accusation… Yeah, except cot and caught are supposed to be two very different sounding words. Same as logger and lager. I suffer from the cot/caught merger too, and it took me a really long time to even learn how to pronounce cot correctly without really overemphasizing it. It sounds silly to me, but I do recognize it’s the correct pronunciation. Go to an online dictionary and listen to cot and caught, back to back, and have yourself a laugh 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/185 "2012-08-29T03:39:21Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I suffer from the cot/caught merger too, and it took me a really long time to even learn how to pronounce cot correctly without really overemphasizing it. I would have thought it was “caught” that took you time to distinguish from “cot.” My accent does not merge “cot” and “caught,” but when I hear accents that do, it’s that both words sound like “cot” to my ears, so it’s “caught” that needs to be differentiated. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/186 "2012-08-29T03:50:44Z")
Einstein’s little-known Law of R’s stipulates that there are a set number of R’s in the universe. For example, the ones that disappear in Boston in phrases like “Pahk your cah in Hahvahd Yahd” reappear down in Texas in phrases like “Struck me an earl well.” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/187 "2012-08-29T04:09:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > …reappear down in Texas in phrases like “Struck me an earl well.” I’ve lived in Texas for 51 years and never heard a Texan talk about an earl well. Most of the down-home Texans would say something like “ull well.” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/188 "2012-08-29T04:21:30Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I’ve lived in Texas for 51 years and never heard a Texan talk about an earl well. Most of the down-home Texans would say something like “ull well.” I lived in Texas for 24 years and did hear “earl.” ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/189 "2012-08-29T04:54:40Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Yeah, except cot and caught are supposed to be two very different sounding words. Same as logger and lager. > > I suffer from the cot/caught merger too, and it took me a really long time to even learn how to pronounce cot correctly without really overemphasizing it. It sounds silly to me, but I do recognize it’s the correct pronunciation. > > Go to an online dictionary and listen to cot and caught, back to back, and have yourself a laugh 😃 I’m not a cot/caught merger at all - they’re two totally different vowels, “caht” and “cawt.” Ditto logger (“lawgger”) and lager (“lahgger” - I didn’t spend quite enough time in Scotland to pick up their pronunciation of “lagger”). ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/190 "2012-08-29T04:58:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Einstein’s little-known Law of R’s stipulates that there are a set number of R’s in the universe. For example, the ones that disappear in Boston in phrases like “Pahk your cah in Hahvahd Yahd” reappear down in Texas in phrases like “Struck me an earl well.” Something I read - I think in _Readers Digest_ - many years ago: A chap who said something along the lines of “Back home in Minnesota my name was Earl and I was in the oil business, but since I moved to New Jersey my name is Oil and I sell erl…” ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/191 "2012-08-29T07:35:05Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > I’m not a cot/caught merger at all - they’re two totally different vowels, “caht” and “cawt.” Ditto logger (“lawgger”) and lager (“lahgger” - I didn’t spend quite enough time in Scotland to pick up their pronunciation of “lagger”). Note that to someone with the cot/caught merger, “ah” and “aw” are pronounced the same. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/192 "2012-08-29T07:45:40Z")
Indeed, to me, awful and ahful sound the same. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/193 "2012-08-29T09:10:19Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I had a Hungarian phrasebook that was published in the UK, and I couldn’t make heads or tails of it. [No wonder!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao) _A légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal_ (My hovercraft is full of eels) (Somebody was inevitably going to post this; might as well be me) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/194 "2012-08-29T09:15:56Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I know how Adele sounds singing Rolling in the Deep. That doesn’t mean that if I sing it, I sound like her. But it _should_ mean that if you are doing your best to sound like her, you won’t go out of your way to pronounce words differently than she does. ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/195 "2012-08-29T09:16:26Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > I’ve met a few people who say “Tyoosday,” but I’ve never heard anyone say “tyoona.” As SciFiSam says, “tyoona” is the way the majority of Brits pronounce it, and virtually all Australians, New Zealanders and so on. Incidentally, in Australia, Tuna and Tuner sound very similar whereas in areas where English is more rhotic, they would differ. ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/196 "2012-08-29T09:28:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I understand that it is not perceived as such by speakers who employ it–I’ve explained that several times through this thread. But it is a rhotic “r”, whether you perceive it as such or not. Those of us in English dialects who do not employ an intrusive “r” hear it clearly. Yes, I can understand that some who are not used to it will perceive it as a rhotic R, but we don’t perceive it as an added “R”. The “R” is in the ears of the beholder, it’s all about who is doing the perceiving! On the “cot/caught” pronunciation, while I understand that in some parts of the USA, they are pronounced in a similar fashion, there would be no such confusion in Australian English. “Caught” would be pronounced by us very similar to how we pronounce “Court”, but since we pronounce “court” very differently to the rhotic accents, that phonetic comparison is invalid outside Australian English. I guess it’s another example of the type of situation which occurred with the singer Sade’s name when the the UK phonetic spelling “Shar-Day” was pronounced as the rhotic oriented Americans would say it. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/197 "2012-08-29T11:34:22Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Her point was to indicate how the vowel sounds, like someone would pronounce the vowel in the word “all.” Except it’s not the vowel in “all”, it’s the vowel in “arm”. In British English, that vowel is most commonly followed by an “r”, so the “shar-day” spelling pronunciation looks perfectly natural. She could have written it as “shah-day”. In RP Br Eng, that would yield an identical pronunciation to “shar-day”, but for rhotic Am Eng speakers, it would yield a different (and correct) pronunciation than the incorrect “shaR-day”. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/198 "2012-08-29T12:10:20Z")
> [@JohnB\_Melb](#): > > Yes, I can understand that some who are not used to it will perceive it as a rhotic R, but we don’t perceive it as an added “R”. Would you pronounce “tuna oil” the same as “tuner oil”? If so, it’s fairly undeniable that you are adding an r sound to the former, even if you don’t perceive it as such. And that’s why it’s called an intrusive r. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/199 "2012-08-29T13:42:34Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I didn’t say that there were breaks or gaps between words in spoken language. I said transitions. Some audible transitions occur between words. I agree that they also occur within words, and don’t necessarily occur between words. So how does this line up with what you seem to be implying, that in my accent, there _must_ be some kind of break, glottal stop or intrusive R between vowels? > [@](#): > > This thread is about how British English marks a certain type of transition. I’m not sure what you mean by this. Are we supposed to discuss the subject as if particular British accents are the only accents of English in the world? When people start implying that a particular feature of a certain accent is “needed” then it’s relevant to talk about how other accents don’t “need” that feature. > [@JohnB\_Melb](#): > > No, what I am saying is that it’s not a deliberate “R” sound, in normal speech and the perception of the listener would have a bearing on how intrusive the “R” sound is perceived. None of these words have any linguistic significance, as far as I can tell. It doesn’t matter whether an intrusive R is perceived as being deliberate. All that matters is that it’s there. > [@](#): > > The “tuna oil” example is difficult to pronounce with continued voicing without the risk of a brief “R” like sound during the tongue repositioning from the “a” in tuna to the “o” in oil, depending on how the tongue is moved. I think this discussion would go smoother if you used different terms. When you say that this “is difficult to pronounce” it looks like an obviously false statement of fact, since I do it without difficulty. Can you rephrase it without making false statements of fact? > [@](#): > > The similarity to an “R” sound varies according to the path the tongue takes in the glide to the “O”. I don’t know what you mean by a variable similarity to an R sound. R sounds are already highly variable by themselves. There are a wide range of tongue positions that make what are recognizable as R sounds in English. That’s why in IPA, there are numerous symbols for various kinds of R sounds. Pretty much anything in that range _is_ an R sound to an English speaker. > [@](#): > > I think what we’re hearing is the result of a certain vocal laziness > [@](#): > > I guess it’s the same sort of vocal “laziness” we hear when some regional accents in the USA or Britain, pronounce it “toona” instead of “tyoona”. > [@JohnB\_Melb](#): > > Pulykamell, I listened to that bit you mentioned, and while I know to what you’re referring, I don’t believe it is **perceived** as an “R” sound by so many Brits and Australians, so much as the result of a lazy attempt at a glottal stop! “Laziness” is not a term usually considered useful when describing linguistic traits. [quote=“JohnB\_Melb, post:196, topic:571223”] Yes, I can understand that some who are not used to it will perceive it as a rhotic R, but we don’t perceive it as an added “R”. And, again, I’m not sure what the significance is of emphasizing the question of whether those who use an intrusive R perceive it as an intrusive R. It is one whether they perceive it that way or not. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Their singing is not proof of qualities of british speech because they consciously altered how they sang to sound more american. If you can find examples of the intrusive intrusive R in their regular speech among fellow britons, that would mean something. The Beatles emulated American accents in _some_ of their work, particularly their earlier work. By the time John Lennon recorded “A Day in the Life,” I don’t think he was emulating an American accent. And his use of the intrusive R in “I sawra film today” is not what one would expect from someone trying to sound like an American blues or rockabilly singer. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I lived in Texas for 24 years and did hear “earl.” I’ve heard that kind of pronunciation in the Virginia Tidewater area. > [@hibernicus](#): > > Would you pronounce “tuna oil” the same as “tuner oil”? If so, it’s fairly undeniable that you are adding an r sound to the former, even if you don’t perceive it as such. And that’s why it’s called an intrusive r. Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/200 "2012-08-29T13:47:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The Beatles emulated American accents in _some_ of their work, particularly their earlier work. By the time John Lennon recorded “A Day in the Life,” I don’t think he was emulating an American accent. And his use of the intrusive R in “I sawra film today” is not what one would expect from someone trying to sound like an American blues or rockabilly singer. The intrusive intrusive R is not generally a conscious decision on the part of the speaker beyond a desire to compensate for a known non-rhotic accent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=11)