# British add an "r" sound **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223 "2011-02-13T17:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/221 "2012-08-30T00:38:55Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > A good example, from the Notting Hill movie : in [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTjIRQU_HdM), Hugh Grant’s friend calls Anna “Anner” at the 25 second point. Yep. And note the context “absolutely certain never to hear from Anna[r] again…” That’s an example of an intervocalic/linking r. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/222 "2012-08-30T00:43:10Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I’ve also heard English people do the opposite–under emphasize the r at the end of a word, like “color.” Yeah spell it correctly as well. Palm & Parm are in an aussie accent the same. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/223 "2012-08-30T00:59:16Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Yeah spell it correctly as well. > > Palm & Parm are in an aussie accent the same. And “Parma” (as in ham) is pronounced exactly the same as “Palmer” (as in Arnold), at least in my British accent. We save those R sounds up for those little gaps that require them. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/224 "2012-08-30T02:39:41Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > Singing is never a good example for accents. Many dialects in Britain would normally use a glottal stop in words such as ‘better’, but that can’t be done in singing. So much of the original accent is lost anyway. Except that Regina Spektor, who is Russian-American, sang the word “better” repeatedly with the glottal stop replacing the tt, in fact emphasizing the glottal stop, in her song “[Fidelity](http://youtu.be/wigqKfLWjvM)” (from 2:04 to 2:07). A completely artificial Britishism, done for some sort of artistic effect, maybe just experimenting with what can or cannot be sung. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/225 "2012-08-30T02:46:23Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > And “Parma” (as in ham) is pronounced exactly the same as “Palmer” (as in Arnold), at least in my British accent. We save those R sounds up for those little gaps that require them. Yep spot on mate, we leave the r’s to the end. Hang on that sounds wrong.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/226 "2012-08-30T03:36:55Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Note that to someone with the cot/caught merger, “ah” and “aw” are pronounced the same. “Ah” and “aw” are different sounds. How can they be pronounced the same? ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/227 "2012-08-30T03:41:34Z")
This is how the Shar-Day thing got started - look at the decal on the cover of her first album as it was issued in America: [http://www.audiophileusa.com/covers400water/24940.jpg](http://www.audiophileusa.com/covers400water/24940.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/228 "2012-08-30T03:47:14Z")
> [@JohnB\_Melb](#): > > I can say “tuna oil” while maintaining voicing without the “intrusive R” but it requires a little more deliberate control of mouth/tongue. > > As I said, I believe it’s people pronouncing it the “easy” way, possible the same reason some pronounce Tuna as “toona”. Actually, I pronounce it “toona” because that’s they way all my friends and neighbours pronounce it\* - as I said, I’ve never heard anyone say “tyoona” (or at least I don’t recall ever hearing it pronounced that way). - Except, of course, for those who - for some bizarre reason I’ve never understood - pronounced it “toonafish”… ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/229 "2012-08-30T03:47:59Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > “Ah” and “aw” are different sounds. How can they be pronounced the same? And why would the “cot/caught” merger involve the “ah” vowel? Neither of those words contains that vowel! Yes, I know, many Americans pronounce “cot” as “caht”, but to RP English speakers they are very different sounds _because “cot” has got a frickin’ “o” in it!_ 😉 To me, “cot”, “caht” (if it existed) and “caught” have three totally distinct vowel sounds. My username is not pronounced **Cahlahphahn** … ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/230 "2012-08-30T03:59:43Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Where in Texas? Texas is a big place. It’s like all of New England. Hell, New York City to Chicago. I’ve been to East Texas and now live in southeast Texas (Houston), never heard “erl” for oil. Haven’t spent much time out west or in the panhandle. I was trapped in West Texas Hell. Also knew a Gerald who pronounced his name Jerl. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/231 "2012-08-30T04:02:37Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > “Ah” and “aw” are different sounds. How can they be pronounced the same? Imagine someone writing that “sea” and “see” are pronounced differently. “‘Sea’”, they relate, “is pronounced like ‘tea’, while ‘see’ is pronounced like ‘tee’.” Would that in any way help you understand the difference in pronunciation? ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/232 "2012-08-30T04:21:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s not an example of hyper-rhoticity, though. ETA: Unless I’m misunderstand your point, which very well may be the case. What I am suggesting is that non-Americans who do very bad American accents by “hyper rhoticising” are just exaggerating the “R” in everyday speech as one aspect of their attempt at the accent. Hence the “intrusive R” as you call it, is also exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/233 "2012-08-30T04:22:27Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Actually, I pronounce it “toona” because that’s they way all my friends and neighbours pronounce it\* - as I said, I’ve never heard anyone say “tyoona” (or at least I don’t recall ever hearing it pronounced that way). > > - Except, of course, for those who - for some bizarre reason I’ve never understood - pronounced it “toonafish”… I’d say almost every Australian who is a native English speaker would say “tyoona” as well as most Brits. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/234 "2012-08-30T04:35:52Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Imagine someone writing that “sea” and “see” are pronounced differently. “‘Sea’”, they relate, “is pronounced like ‘tea’, while ‘see’ is pronounced like ‘tee’.” Would that in any way help you understand the difference in pronunciation? Haven’t the faintest idea what point you’re trying to make here… ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/235 "2012-08-30T04:37:34Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > And why would the “cot/caught” merger involve the “ah” vowel? Neither of those words contains that vowel! > > Yes, I know, many Americans pronounce “cot” as “caht”, but to RP English speakers they are very different sounds _because “cot” has got a frickin’ “o” in it!_ 😉 > > To me, “cot”, “caht” (if it existed) and “caught” have three totally distinct vowel sounds. My username is not pronounced **Cahlahphahn** … Do you pronounce the vowel in cot and the first vowel in father differently? They’re the same to me… ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/236 "2012-08-30T04:37:51Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > It’s not really a case of ‘properly’ thinking about what you’re doing. If you’re consciously selecting each sound you’re going to make, you’ll end up sounding like a robot. Language becomes a natural thing, like walking. > I don’t know what your accent/dialect is, but I imagine you do similar things. When speaking in conversation do you add a /w/ in ‘two eggs’? (note - ‘two’ does not have a /w/ in it normally, it is /tu:/ (too)) Do you add a /j/ (yuh) in ‘three eggs’? Most people do, but they don’t even realise it’s happened. > > Maybe you don’t do those, and they’re bad examples for your accent, but I imagine if you recorded yourself speaking I’d be able to spot many ‘accidental’ features of connected speech. It’s not because you’re not ‘properly’ thinking - to me that sounds you’re saying people who use an intrusive /r/ are not quite as competent as you at the language. I assure you they most certainly are. If you didn’t mean it like that, then disregard this post! Hi FToSF, Good point with the “two eggs”, and the answer is that there is a “w” sound if I don’t have the glottal stop between “two” and “eggs”. I am not actually “adding” a “w” but it’s a characteristic of the voiced “glide” between the vowels. As for my “accusation” of others being not as competent with the language, this is not at all what I am suggesting. What I said was that I do, on occasion, pronounce with what some call an “intrusive R”, as do many people. I can pronounce without an “intrusive R”, but it takes slightly more effort. If I am speaking in a formal setting I would likely pronounce differently than the “lazy” speech I might otherwise use. I was not accusing anyone of being less competent with language, simply saying that the characteristic is more due to taking a shortcut or making less effort in speaking. I have a former colleague who normally speaks with a lisp. He did demonstrate, once, how he can speak without a lisp, but it obviously took more effort for him to do so. His lisp is not an affectation, it is simply the way he speaks. I have done a fair bit of dialogue editing in the documentaries I work on. “Connected speech” is a pain in the arse as it makes it difficult to edit around words, particularly troublesome when someone is umming and ahhing a lot and you want to edit the mistakes and ums out, to make them sound at least vaguely intelligible. Sometimes I need to record a guide track of the narration and my speech then will be quite different, clearer enunciation and less “connectedness” so that it can be edited if necessary. Real voice-over talent will pronounce words correctly, in a form much easier to edit, yet avoid sounding like robots !! ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/237 "2012-08-30T04:41:26Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Do you pronounce the vowel in cot and the first vowel in father differently? They’re the same to me… In Australia, the accepted pronunciation is similar to the Brits. It’s not Caht for “ **cot** ” or “frahm” for “ **from** ” and \*\*father \*\*is pronounced “fahther”. My “phonetic” versions are written how I perceive a north American would pronounce them. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/238 "2012-08-30T07:42:40Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > Do you pronounce the vowel in cot and the first vowel in father differently? They’re the same to me… Of course - not only are they different lengths, they are totally different vowels: “cot” has a short “o” vowel, as in “hot”, whereas “father” has a long “a” sound, as in “heart”, or indeed “fart”. [British pronunciation of “hot”.](http://www.macmillandictionary.com/pronunciation/british/hot) (It’s a better example of the vowel sound than the pronunciation of “cot” on the same site, which sounds a bit drawled to me.) [“Father”](http://www.macmillandictionary.com/pronunciation/british/father) [“Farther”](http://www.macmillandictionary.com/pronunciation/british/farther) (spot the difference). Bonus: > **[Welcome to Macmillan Education Customer Support](https://macmillaneducation.my.salesforce-sites.com/help/)** > **[Welcome to Macmillan Education Customer Support](https://macmillaneducation.my.salesforce-sites.com/help/)** ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/239 "2012-08-30T13:31:20Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > “Ah” and “aw” are different sounds. How can they be pronounced the same? > [@SCAdian](#): > > > [@Punoqllads](#): > > > > Imagine someone writing that “sea” and “see” are pronounced differently. “‘Sea’”, they relate, “is pronounced like ‘tea’, while ‘see’ is pronounced like ‘tee’.” Would that in any way help you understand the difference in pronunciation? > > Haven’t the faintest idea what point you’re trying to make here… I thought Punoqllads’ explanation was brilliant, but I’ll explain more. You said that “ah” and “aw” are different sounds, but those aren’t sounds, they’re pairs of letters written down. How do _you_ pronounce those letters? _Some people_ pronounce them the same, so they pronounce “cot” and “caught” exactly the same. To me, they say both words sounding like “cot,” and they don’t say “caught” the way I would say it. I had a roofing guy one time giving me a quote for a new roof, and he was talking about how many “air hocks” would be installed. I thought that was an unusual term, until I saw the written quote and saw that he was talking about “air hawks.” He said them the same, but to me “hawk” should be pronounced differently. The point that Punoqllads was making is that you can’t describe to someone that “cot” should be pronounced like the vowel sound in “hock” while “caught” sounds like “hawk,” because if people say “cot” and “caught” the same, they’ll also pronounce “hock” and “hawk” the same. To them, it would be like telling you that “sea” is pronounced like “tea”, while “see” is pronounced like “tee.” It would make no sense to them because all those words sound alike. Some other differences in pronunciation: bother, father \<- these completely rhyme to me, but some people pronounce them differently. Mary, merry, marry \<- I say these exactly the same, but some people say them differently. Cot, caught \<- completely different vowel sounds to me, some people say them the same. ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/240 "2012-08-30T14:27:16Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Some other differences in pronunciation: > > bother, father \<- these completely rhyme to me, but some people pronounce them differently. > > Mary, merry, marry \<- I say these exactly the same, but some people say them differently. > > Cot, caught \<- completely different vowel sounds to me, some people say them the same. Interesting examples there. As an Australian, standard accent but not like the Crocodile Dundee character. Bother, Father, definitely pronounced differently in Australian English. Mary, merry, marry. Each pronounced quite differently by most Australians. Cot, Caught, again, pronounced differently. I am curious, since you mentioned that you do pronounce “Cot” differently to “Caught”. For us, we’d pronounce the “o” in “bother” similar to how we pronounce the “o” in “cot”. Just my two bob’s worth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=13)