# British add an "r" sound **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223 "2011-02-13T17:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/21 "2011-02-13T19:27:53Z")
Not just the Brits… certain American accents do as well. I’m listening to a blog series on history right now, and I cringe every time I (in my hearing experience) hear “idear.” And I’m usually pretty good at accepting accents, so I guess over time I’ll start cringing less. ---
**Author:** ![longPath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@longPath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/longPath)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/22 "2011-02-13T19:27:53Z")
> [@longPath](#): > > My maternal Grandmother was born in Southport, Lancashire in 1898 and came to Canada in 1910. She \*\*never had a trace of an accent that I could detect \*\*but retained the “intrusive r” until she died in 1993. > In fact, the r got more pronounced in the last few years of her life. **CRSP** : I should have said that my point of reference vis “accent” was “Coronation Street”. 🙂 I now remember once having asked her about the r thing and she said that _She_ didn’t do it, but her relations who lived close to Manchester, did. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/23 "2011-02-13T19:32:29Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And even that is not a neat dividing line. > That’s a great link actually. > For those suggesting that most British do or don’t add the “r” I reckon you need to read through that and appreciate the diversity of the regional dialect and pronunciation. > > Perhaps over here we are used to hearing and accepting both types and every flavour in between. For those with foreign ears, confirmation bias may make it seem more common than it really is. Oh, I wouldn’t have the confidence to say what “most” Brits do or don’t say–the UK has an amazingly dense myriad of accents. It’s incredible to me how much the accent can change in a small geographic area. That said, as I hinted above in my notes about the intrusive-r, Americans overestimate its prevalence (there are rules to when it is used in accents that use it), but I think it’s much more common than UKers might think. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/24 "2011-02-13T19:47:10Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you say “pam” and “tak” for “palm” and “talk”? > > That doesn’t chime with my experience at all, though most of the US people I speak to are east or west coast exclusively. > > Is it not more common to say “parm” and “tork” I suspect you have a non-rhotic accent if you describe the way you hear Americans say “palm” and “talk” as “parm” and “tork.” “Palm” is pronounced completely differently from “parm” (as in “chicken parm”) in most American accents. One has the definite presence of a rhotic, the other does not. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/25 "2011-02-13T20:10:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That said, as I hinted above in my notes about the intrusive-r, Americans overestimate its prevalence (there are rules to when it is used in accents that use it), but I think it’s much more common than UKers might think. Remember, in the US, the vast majority of British English that we hear is BBC RP or accents from the south of Engand. The only “non-standard” accents we’ll encounter with some regularity is cockney. (I’m not including areas outside of England proper; Scotland, Wales, or Ireland/Northern Ireland.) I wouldn’t expect a Brit to be familiar with Midland Northern (the nasal Great Lakes eyacksint), Yinzer, or Tidewater, just as Americans aren’t going to be intimate with Scouse or a Yorkshire accent. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Just wondering if you can actually hear it, since it’s blatantly obvious to me, but it may not be to someone who is immersed in the accent (like the arguments we get about the Canadian raising of “ow” sounds, like in “about.” To me, it’s clear as crystal; but many who have the accent don’t seem to hear it.) This could account for the “Well, I’m British, and I’ve never heard anyone use a terminal R” responses. Go to my hometown, and people deny up and down that they speak with a regional accent. Still, I’ve had conversations like this to disprove it. “How many syllables does this word have?” (Show them a piece of paper with the word “and” written on it.) “One.” “Say it.” “eee-YAND.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/26 "2011-02-13T20:11:17Z")
Similarly, I (native Brit) would pronounce “talk” and “torque” quite differently (at least, it sounds different to _me_). ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/27 "2011-02-13T20:24:08Z")
Whereas I, another native Brit, would pronounce talk and torque exactly the same. Different regional accents, I’m guessing. (What’s your accent, Malacandra?) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/28 "2011-02-13T20:42:36Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Remember, in the US, the vast majority of British English that we hear is BBC RP or accents from the south of Engand. The only “non-standard” accents we’ll encounter with some regularity is cockney. (I’m not including areas outside of England proper; Scotland, Wales, or Ireland/Northern Ireland.) Sure, no major disagreement here from me. Interesting stat from the Wikipedia article about the “intrusive r”: > [@](#): > > A study[19] examined the pronunciation of 30 British newsreaders on nationally broadcast newscasts around the turn of the 21st century speaking what was judged to be “mainstream RP”. The data used in the study consisted mostly of the newsreaders reading from prepared scripts, but also included some more informal interview segments. It was found that all the newsreaders used some linking R and 90% (27 of 30) used some intrusive R. > Overall, linking R was used in 59.8% of possible sites and intrusive R was used in 32.6% of possible sites. > [@](#): > > This could account for the “Well, I’m British, and I’ve never heard anyone use a terminal R” responses. Go to my hometown, and people deny up and down that they speak with a regional accent. Still, I’ve had conversations like this to disprove it. Absolutely, and this is completely natural. Not everyone is as in tune with it as others, but a lot of folks will spot me from a mile away as either a Chicagoan or possibly Cleveland based on my accent. I personally don’t think I have a strong Chicago accent by any stretch (and I like the working class Streets & San[itation] type accent), but it’s obvious from my interaction with others and their ability to spot me as a Chicagoan, that it is. I like to play the same game with “spotting the Canadian.” Like that T-Mobile commercial with the cute woman in the pink dress. Spotted her as a Canadian the first time I heard her by the raising in her accent, but I’m sure plenty of Canadians would have no idea what I’m talking about and swear her accent is the same as a typical US accent. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/29 "2011-02-13T21:08:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, I wouldn’t have the confidence to say what “most” Brits do or don’t say–the UK has an amazingly dense myriad of accents. It’s incredible to me how much the accent can change in a small geographic area. That said, as I hinted above in my notes about the intrusive-r, Americans overestimate its prevalence (there are rules to when it is used in accents that use it), but I think it’s much more common than UKers might think. I think you may well be right there. Interesting fact. I come originally from a rural area of the North-east of England and though my wife was born only 5 miles away from me, when I first met her (20+ years ago)I knew her accent and dialect was different and had a good idea where she came from. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/30 "2011-02-13T21:10:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I suspect you have a non-rhotic accent if you describe the way you hear Americans say “palm” and “talk” as “parm” and “tork.” > > “Palm” is pronounced completely differently from “parm” (as in “chicken parm”) in most American accents. One has the definite presence of a rhotic, the other does not. I didn’t even know “parm” was a real word. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/31 "2011-02-13T22:26:36Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > This could account for the “Well, I’m British, and I’ve never heard anyone use a terminal R” responses. Go to my hometown, and people deny up and down that they speak with a regional accent. Still, I’ve had conversations like this to disprove it. Yeah, I think people don’t even know they’re doing it. The intervocalic R has come up a few times before in threads, and the first time I heard about it I was a little mystified. “I don’t do that!”, I thought, but when I paid close attention to some examples people gave (the one I remember is Captain Jean-Luc Picard saying “Data and I”), sure enough there was a R sound there. It sounds a bit like “Dater and I”. And I realised that I do indeed insert intervocalic Rs. I think most British English speakers do. I think it’s a bit like the cot/caught and marry/merry debates that rage around here sometimes. Some people pronounce those words the same but can hear the difference in other people’s pronunciation, but some people pronounce them the same _and cannot hear the difference even when people pronounce them differently_. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/32 "2011-02-13T23:16:46Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m British and I’m never sure what people mean by this. All I can think of is a West Country accent, although even people in the recesses of Cornwall and Devon don’t generally _add_ "r"s, but overemphasize the ones that are already there. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/33 "2011-02-14T00:08:45Z")
> [@juliawenzel1](#): > > Why do Brits often add an “r” sound at the end of words ending in an “a”? For instance my English friend calls me Juliar and her daughter Samanthar. BBC reporters refer to “Chinar” and “Indiar”. What do you mean, “why”? Your question appears to be “Why do some people have a different accent to me?” The answer is that they are not you, and don’t speak with your accent. Same reason that every difference in every accent, such as your own, exists. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/34 "2011-02-14T00:21:22Z")
“Champagne supernover in the sky.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/35 "2011-02-14T01:10:34Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I heard something similar from Paul McCartney when he sang “Till there was you”—“sawr” for “saw.” When I brought this particular example up in a [thread about this phenomenon a few years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=396436), **Johanna** identified it as a “postvocalic intrusive rhotacization.” So now you know what it’s called. For an example from this side of the Atlantic, I can think of Billy Joel singing about “Brendar and Eddie” (in, IIRC, “Scenes From an Italian Restaurant”). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/36 "2011-02-14T01:16:06Z")
I wish Cecil would do a column on this; it comes up at least once a month and Oasis and the Beatles are are _always_ cited as examples. Still, this one’s going a little differently, with lots of Brits claiming that the intrusive R doesn’t exist (er, it does in pretty much all non-rhotic accents in England), rather than Americans vehemently claiming that Brits add an r to the end of every vowel even after the ‘only when there’s a following vowel’ rule has been explained. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/37 "2011-02-14T01:24:24Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you say “pam” and “tak” for “palm” and “talk”? > > That doesn’t chime with my experience at all, though most of the US people I speak to are east or west coast exclusively. > > Is it not more common to say “parm” and “tork” I’ve lived on both the East and West coasts, and have relatives who live in the South, and I’ve travelled a bit in the Midwest. I can’t think of an American accent that would insert an /r/ sound into “palm” or “talk.” Most Americans would pronounce “palm” so as to rhyme with “Tom.” Even in Boston, where “Tom” is pronounced “Tawm” (or, more often,“Tawmee”) “palm” would rhyme with the standard pronunciation of “Tom.” (Am I right, John Mace?) With a New York accent, “talk” becomes “tawk.” I’ve occasionally heard it pronounced as “tock.” Most Americans pronounce it somewhere in between, but I can’t figure out a way to render it in print. Maybe like this: Say it like “tall,” except end with a /k/ in place of the /l/. I will now step down and stop speaking for all 300 million of us. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/38 "2011-02-14T01:28:11Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > “Champagne supernover in the sky.” And even there, he pronounces it both ways. When there’s a bit of a break, he sings "a champagne supernova [breath], a champagne supanova[r] in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/39 "2011-02-14T04:37:19Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I didn’t even know “parm” was a real word. 🙂 “Parm” is the shortened usage for “Parmesan” (the hard-grating cheese) or “Parmagiana” (adjective describing dishes made with that cheese, or with an origin in Parma, much as “Florentine” means either “made with spinach and cream” or “originating in Florence”. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/40 "2011-02-14T04:49:15Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > … > Still, this one’s going a little differently, with lots of Brits claiming that the intrusive R doesn’t exist (er, it does in pretty much all non-rhotic accents in England)… Oh we know it exists, just not everywhere in Britain. Remember the fun of listening to Thatcher or one of her lot going on about some woman apparently named “Laura Norder”? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=3)