# British add an "r" sound **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223 "2011-02-13T17:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/61 "2011-02-14T16:29:34Z")
Cliff Richard sings the song “Donna” and adds the “r” sound, resulting in “Donner” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/62 "2011-02-14T17:11:11Z")
Thanks for making me listen to Cliff Richard songs on YouTube 😉 ([here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKHlJ8CX1ro)it is), but what he is doing there is not an intrusive R. I guess he was just trying to sound like an American rock & roll singer by putting heavily-enunciated Rs on the end of everything. John Lennon used to do that too. Obviously in this case Cliff got it a bit wrong. But a Brit wouldn’t say “Donner was her name” in real life (except possibly those Cornish people mentioned earlier, I wouldn’t know about that). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/63 "2011-02-14T17:29:10Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I don’t think anyone is disputing that the r sound only pops up when it is between vowel sounds at the end and beginning of two words. Why do you think they are? Eh? Because they’re claiming that British people pronounce certain words with an r. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/64 "2011-02-14T18:04:12Z")
You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say “Oh-barma” (like karma) rather than “Oh-bama” (as in “Bam-Bam”). 'Tis the way it’s done here. “Jag-you-ah” and “Nicker-rag-you-ah” are normal here, and if you said “Jag-wah” or “Nicker-rarg-wah” you would be looked on as weird (or pretentious). ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/65 "2011-02-14T18:15:20Z")
My current boss and one former co-worker, both Brits, had this characteristic of speech. The classic arcade game was pronounced “Gallagher,” while the comedian with the melon-smashing shtick was “Galaga.” ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/66 "2011-02-14T18:49:46Z")
The one I react to most is in Asda, which is now owned by Walmart. In their own adverts instore the announcer actually says “Asder” I rarely notice it otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/67 "2011-02-14T20:14:06Z")
How would you say, for example “Data and I” _without_ the epenthetic R? Would you merge the two As into one sound, insert a glottal stop between them, or stop for a breath between them? ---
**Author:** ![Inthewater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Inthewater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inthewater)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/68 "2011-02-14T20:23:29Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > How would you say, for example “Data and I” _without_ the epenthetic R? > > Would you merge the two As into one sound, insert a glottal stop between them, or stop for a breath between them? In my neck of the woods, it would either be two As as one sound, or a glottal stop. More than likely, the first choice. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/69 "2011-02-14T20:25:00Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > How would you say, for example “Data and I” _without_ the epenthetic R? > > Would you merge the two As into one sound, insert a glottal stop between them, or stop for a breath between them? For me, when I’m saying it, it’s a glottal stop (or similar), but not one long sound, and not a breath in between. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/70 "2011-02-14T20:46:22Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > How would you say, for example “Data and I” _without_ the epenthetic R? day-tuh-en-eye No glottal stop. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/71 "2011-02-14T20:49:24Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say “Oh-barma” (like karma) rather than “Oh-bama” (as in “Bam-Bam”). Oh-bama as in “Bam-Bam,” rhyming with “clam,” isn’t correct, either. A friend of mine complains endlessly that his mother pronounces it that way. The standard pronunciation of the middle syllable in Obama’s name seems to rhyme with “Tom.” ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/72 "2011-02-14T21:40:59Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > BBC reporter Lyse Doucet, who I’ve come to learn is actually Canadian, does this sometimes, but she pronounces her 'r’s hard anyway. > > I’m always glued to my radio whenever Lyse Doucet reports because **her accent is British in every way** except for the ‘r’ sound at the end of words. So whereas the average British person will pronounce the word ‘water’ as ‘woata’, Lyse Doucet pronounces it ‘woatr’ with a hard ‘r’ at the end. My bolding - no it’s not. It’s a peculiar (not unpleasant, I hasten to add) mixed accent. It’s very definitely not British of any flavour. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/73 "2011-02-14T22:04:12Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you say “pam” and “tak” for “palm” and “talk”? > > That doesn’t chime with my experience at all, though most of the US people I speak to are east or west coast exclusively. > > Is it not more common to say “parm” and “tork” Sigh. We go around and around on this every six weeks, it seems like. You cannot use the letter _R_ to indicate a vowel change if there’s any chance that someone in the conversation has a rhotic accent. And since the vast majority of posters on the SDMB are Americans, there are a _lot_ of people here with rhotic accents. \*I plead with you non-rhotic speakers. Just, please stop. Find another way to indicate vowel changes. Or you’ll be talking in circles with us the rest of your lives. \* If you really don’t want to use I.P.A., why not use _AH_? See, you can write “pahm” to indicate the pronunciation of “palm” without muddying everything up by sticking _R_ in everywhere. In General American accents – _Pam_ is [pæm] _palm_ is [pam] or [pɑm] - no _R_s in sight _parm_ is [paɹm] _tack_ is [tæk] _tock_ and _talk_ are [tɑk] or [tɒk] - no _L_s in sight _torque_ is [toɹk] or [tɔɹk] > [@Mk\_VII](#): > > You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say “Oh-barma” (like karma) rather than “Oh-bama” (as in “Bam-Bam”). 'Tis the way it’s done here. Again, this statement makes no sense when there are rhotics in your audience, because we never, ever hear anyone pronounce “Obama” to rhyme with “karma.” And no one here pronounces it to rhyme with “Bam-Bam” either. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/74 "2011-02-14T22:10:42Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think you may well be right there. > > Interesting fact. I come originally from a rural area of the North-east of England and though my wife was born only 5 miles away from me, when I first met her (20+ years ago)I knew her accent and dialect was different and had a good idea where she came from. I have a different accent from my sister and we grew up in the same house. We lived in Kenilworth, on the border between Warwickshire and the West Midlands. She has a Coventry accent whereas mine is more South Warwickshire. Nothing to do with our parents either. One is from Scotland and the other from Yorkshire. Accents are weird. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/75 "2011-02-14T22:14:04Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I have a different accent from my sister and we grew up in the same house. We lived in Kenilworth, on the border between Warwickshire and the West Midlands. She has a Coventry accent whereas mine is more South Warwickshire. So your room was in Warwickshire and her room was in West Midlands? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/76 "2011-02-14T22:17:34Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Nothing to do with our parents either. One is from Scotland and the other from Yorkshire. Accents are weird. Supposedly (and this is through the haze of my memories of a linguistic class in university some fifteen years ago), accents are not generally passed down from parents, but rather picked up from the speaker’s peers. So, if your sister had a set of friends/peers where the Coventry accent was well-represented, and you have a group of friends with mostly South Warwickshire accents, that would explain the difference. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/77 "2011-02-14T22:21:54Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > So your room was in Warwickshire and her room was in West Midlands? Hehe. That’s the best explanation I’ve heard yet. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/78 "2011-02-14T22:25:13Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Supposedly (and this is through the haze of my memories of a linguistic class in university some fifteen years ago), accents are not generally passed down from parents, but rather picked up from the speaker’s peers. So, if your sister had a set of friends/peers where the Coventry accent was well-represented, and you have a group of friends with mostly South Warwickshire accents, that would explain the difference. Yep. That sounds right. I think the only thng I have picked up from either of them is the northern-English short a in bath, grass, path etc. Even then occasionally the ‘other way’ slips out. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/79 "2011-02-14T22:28:23Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > If you really don’t want to use I.P.A., why not use _AH_? See, you can write “pahm” to indicate the pronunciation of “palm” without muddying everything up by sticking _R_ in everywhere.r. But I would not pronounce “pahm” in the same way as “palm” or “parm” ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/80 "2011-02-14T22:35:34Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > > [@Mk\_VII](#): > > > > You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say “Oh-barma” (like karma) rather than “Oh-bama” (as in “Bam-Bam”). 'Tis the way it’s done here. > > Oh-bama as in “Bam-Bam,” rhyming with “clam,” isn’t correct, either. A friend of mine complains endlessly that his mother pronounces it that way. You should read acsenray’s post very closely. Mk VII was NOT saying that reporters say the word with what you would call an “r” sound in it. Notice that he’s from England, and when they say “karma,” they don’t pronounce what you would call an “r” sound. To translate into 'merkin, he was saying “You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say ‘Oh-bahma’ rather than ‘Oh-bam-a’ (as in ‘Bam-Bam’).” I used to hang out on alt.usage.english, and one lesson I learned is that you can’t communicate how you pronounce a word by comparing it to how you pronounce another word - your audience member likely will assume that you pronounce that other word like he does, and it will likely be different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=5)