# British add an "r" sound **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223 "2011-02-13T17:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/81 "2011-02-14T22:35:49Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > But I would not pronounce “pahm” in the same way as “palm” or “parm” Then use the I.P.A. It was specifically designed to help people talk about pronunciation. It really works. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/82 "2011-02-14T22:53:41Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Then use the I.P.A. It was specifically designed to help people talk about pronunciation. It really works. Far too much effort. Apart from occasional threads like this the subject never comes up. My only concern in the first place was that there is no such thing as a “British” accent or pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/83 "2011-02-14T22:59:13Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That doesn’t chime Dialect question: I would have said “That doesn’t _jibe_ with my experience.” Is “chime” common usage in your dialect? ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/84 "2011-02-14T23:21:40Z")
I remember when the singer Sade put out her first album in the US back in the 1980s and there was a label on the cover saying “Pronounced Shar-Day.” I knew that was going to backfire, and sure enough it led to a generation of Americans mispronouncing the name Sade with the rhotic R. You still hear that today. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/85 "2011-02-15T01:57:54Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Eh? Because they’re claiming that British people pronounce certain words with an r. But in the right set of circumstances (between two words ending and starting in a vowel) some British people do add an r sound. ---
**Author:** ![Leonard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@Leonard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leonard)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/86 "2011-02-15T04:12:06Z")
The most glaring example I’ve ever heard of it was from an Australian. On HDNet Fights, you always hear Michael Schiavello say, “We’re live from Yokohamar Arena!” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/87 "2011-02-15T04:32:08Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Dialect question: I would have said “That doesn’t _jibe_ with my experience.” Is “chime” common usage in your dialect? Hey, that’s a great one! Evokes “ringing true.” ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/88 "2011-02-15T08:02:26Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > But in the right set of circumstances (between two words ending and starting in a vowel) some British people do add an r sound. But that’s not what people have been saying, unlike Leonard just now. They are very definitely saying, same as the OP, that the r is simply added to the word. > [@acsenray](#): > > Dialect question: I would have said “That doesn’t _jibe_ with my experience.” Is “chime” common usage in your dialect? It’s standard British English. So standard, in fact, that it’s probably in lots of varieties of American English too, it’s just that you happen not to have heard it. Speaking of rhymes, I often see ‘rhymes with Tom’ for the ɒ sound which most dialects use in ‘car.’ In British RP and most (if not all) other British accents, car and Tom have completely different vowel sounds. But I can understand people not wanting to have to search for url=[The sounds of English and the International Phonetic Alphabet | Antimoon](http://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm)]an IPA chart then copy and paste a symbol, plus work out which symbol to use if they’re not familiar with the chart. If Obama’s not with an ɒ or an æ, what on Earth is it? I thought it was the former. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/89 "2011-02-15T10:00:15Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Dialect question: I would have said “That doesn’t _jibe_ with my experience.” Is “chime” common usage in your dialect? It is indeed, I suppose it comes from the concept of something being part of a chord or a progression of bells. i.e. something that is “in accordance with” I would use the term “Jibe” but only to mean the opposite, i.e. for something that isn’t in accordance. Isn’t language fun? I love the quote about English mugging other languages. so very true. I also like Stephen Fry’s analogy about language being a currency. All words are analogues of the real thing. I don’t give you dog to let you know that’s what I mean. I use a word instead. And I say “dog” you say “dawg” who cares? As long as we accept the meaning or “value” of a word, we shouldn’t get too hung up exactly what it looks or sounds like. It might cause me a moment of concern to be given $160 for something of £100 in value but I’m sure I can handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/90 "2011-02-15T11:17:22Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s standard British English Except that the usual British spelling is “gybe”. Though I suppose, as with so many things, the US spelling is creeping in. [edit] Actually, I take that back. OED seems to suggest that the two words “jibe” are not necessarily related. So if we mean “to be in accordance with”, “jibe” is probably correct wherever you are. I just assumed it was related to the nautical meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/91 "2011-02-15T11:43:27Z")
> [@Leonard](#): > > The most glaring example I’ve ever heard of it was from an Australian. On HDNet Fights, you always hear Michael Schiavello say, “We’re live from Yokohamar Arena!” I’m Australian too, and I don’t know how to pronounce Yokohama and Yokohamar differently 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/92 "2011-02-15T14:00:11Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > You should read acsenray’s post very closely. True. That post cleared up alot of things about this thread. I would have read it closely before I put my two cents in but, y’know, acsenray hadn’t posted it yet. > [@CurtC](#): > > To translate into 'merkin, he was saying “You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say ‘Oh-bahma’ rather than ‘Oh-bam-a’ (as in ‘Bam-Bam’).” So what he’s saying is, “You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say [correct pronunciation] rather than [incorrect pronunciation].” Odd way of putting it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/93 "2011-02-15T17:31:53Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Speaking of rhymes, I often see ‘rhymes with Tom’ for the ɒ sound which most dialects use in ‘car.’ In British RP and most (if not all) other British accents, car and Tom have completely different vowel sounds. 😕 In what accent are they the same? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/94 "2011-02-15T17:40:24Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > 😕 In what accent are they the same? In a lot of American accents the AH sound and the “short O” sound have merged. That’s why there’s currently a thread in which someone transcribed the pronunciation of “Frankenstein” from _Young Frankenstein_ as “Fronkensteen.” And that’s another reason to hate terms like “short O” and other non-IPA attempts to render pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/95 "2011-02-15T18:44:10Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > But that’s not what people have been saying, unlike Leonard just now. They are very definitely saying, same as the OP, that the r is simply added to the word. I think you are being too sensitive, there. Even if it is not always there, we do tend to think of it as if you are adding an r to the word, not throwing an r in the middle. > [@](#): > > If Obama’s not with an ɒ or an æ, what on Earth is it? I thought it was the former. Obama is indeed pronounced with an [ɒ], although both [a] and [ɑ] are also acceptable. [æ] is the one that is not acceptable, and I hear it quite often in British media. (If your pronunciation is closer to that of the French, then I would also avoid using [a], as the French /a/ can sound very close to our [æ]. Either [ɒ] or [ɑ] is safer.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/96 "2011-02-15T19:04:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Obama is indeed pronounced with an [ɒ], although both [a] and [ɑ] are also acceptable. I would put it the other way around. It’s most commonly pronounced with [a] or [ɑ], but sometimes [ɒ] is heard. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/97 "2011-02-15T19:35:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I think you are being too sensitive, there. Even if it is not always there, we do tend to think of it as if you are adding an r to the word, not throwing an r in the middle. > > Obama is indeed pronounced with an [ɒ], although both [a] and [ɑ] are also acceptable. [æ] is the one that is not acceptable, and I hear it quite often in British media. > > (If your pronunciation is closer to that of the French, then I would also avoid using [a], as the French /a/ can sound very close to our [æ]. Either [ɒ] or [ɑ] is safer.) Will, people can think of it that way if they like, but it’s weird, on a board that’s about fighting ignorance. to continue to think of it that way when posting in a thread that makes it clear that it’s wrong. I’m extremely surprised you’ve heard British people on TV saying Obama with an æ. Maybe comedians exaggerating their Northern-ness or something? My pronunciation’s nothing like the French, I have to say, so I’m not likely to use [a]; hey, at least this shows I haven’t spent _too_ much time on these boards going on about British stuff. 😃 FWIW: when I was a kid, thanks to cartoons, I thought there was a name ‘Tarm,’ [tɑ:m] because it sounded so little like ‘Tom’ to me. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/98 "2011-02-15T20:47:49Z")
Beaten to much of it by **ascenray** and **SciFiSam** (thanks for the link). Link repeated since he hashed the code. > **[The sounds of English and the International Phonetic Alphabet | Antimoon](https://www.antimoon.com/how/pronunc-soundsipa.htm)** > > All the sounds used in the English language with sound recordings and symbols in the International Phonetic Alphabet Before proceeding, go to that page and listen to the difference between the “Amer” and “Brit” pronunciations of ɑ: arm, father ɔ: call, four If you listen, you will see what Americans here when you describe _palm_ as being pronounced like “parm”. We very strongly hear the “r”. Note that “arm” and “father” sound different to an American (i.e. rhotic). Also note that strong difference in the Amer version of call, four. I am one of the cot,caught merged persons, so call and four have distinctly different vowel sounds, not just he r on then end of the second. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you say “pam” and “tak” for “palm” and “talk”? > > [snip] > > Is it not more common to say “parm” and “tork” > [@Crusoe](#): > > Whereas I, another native Brit, would pronounce talk and torque exactly the same. Different regional accents, I’m guessing. (What’s your accent, Malacandra?) That just sounds preposterous to me. (No offence intended.) Palm sounds just like the Amer version of “call”. Torque has the Amer version of “four”. “Call” sounds similar to “caw” like what a crow does, “four” sounds like “fore”, i.e. the front part (foreward). Saying they have the same vowel just isn’t right to me, even without the rhotic. > [@Quartz](#): > > Brit here. Are you sure it’s not simply a long ‘a’ and not an added ‘r’? Contrast it with the short ‘a’ in ‘apple’ or ‘hat’. Or even the first two 'a’s in Samantha. Suh man thuh vs. Suh man thur, not Suh man tha or Suh man thay > [@Mk\_VII](#): > > You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say “Oh-barma” (like karma) rather than “Oh-bama” (as in “Bam-Bam”). 'Tis the way it’s done here. So you pronounce karma like _comma_? > [@](#): > > “Jag-you-ah” and “Nicker-rag-you-ah” are normal here, and if you said “Jag-wah” or “Nicker-rarg-wah” you would be looked on as weird (or pretentious). Every time I hear the car commercial, and the British lady says “Jag you ar”, I snicker. It’s “Jag wahr”. > [@Kiyoshi](#): > > How would you say, for example “Data and I” _without_ the epenthetic R? > > Would you merge the two As into one sound, insert a glottal stop between them, or stop for a breath between them? > [@Cayuga](#): > > day-tuh-en-eye > > No glottal stop. Yeah, Data and I, “day tuh and eye”. It’s not hard. Just a slight pause. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/99 "2011-02-15T21:23:48Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > So what he’s saying is, “You’ll frequently hear reporters here (and many others) say [correct pronunciation] rather than [incorrect pronunciation].” Odd way of putting it. Yes, except he apparently didn’t know which one we Americans were saying was correct, since most of the posts before that were assuming that everyone agrees what an ‘r’ sounds like. My take is that he thought we were saying that “Obama” should NOT be pronounced “O-bah-muh” (this phonetic spelling is for American readers), and he phonetically spelled that pronunciation as “Oh-barma.” ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/100 "2011-02-16T04:53:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > And even there, he pronounces it both ways. When there’s a bit of a break, he sings "a champagne supernova [breath], a champagne supanova[r] in the sky. By that same token, when Elton John sings “Oh Nikita, you will never know…”, it sounds normal. But when there’s a vowel after it, like “Nikita, I need you so”, he pronounces it “Nikiter”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=6)