# British add an "r" sound **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 13, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223 "2011-02-13T17:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/121 "2012-08-28T12:54:54Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > BBC reporter Lyse Doucet, who I’ve come to learn is actually Canadian, does this sometimes, but she pronounces her 'r’s hard anyway. > > I’m always glued to my radio whenever Lyse Doucet reports because her accent is British in every way except for the ‘r’ sound at the end of words. So whereas the average British person will pronounce the word ‘water’ as ‘woata’, Lyse Doucet pronounces it ‘woatr’ with a hard ‘r’ at the end. Oh, I have to disagree, Lyse Doucet has a most becoming accent but it’s nowhere near British, nor does it sound, (to me, an Australian) typically North American. Hers is a strange but attractive accent, which I thought must be due to her upbringing around New Brunswick, Canada. However the BBC does have another Canadian born journalist, Barbara Plett, who sounds similar in some ways. Barbara is originally from Manitoba. ---
**Author:** ![JohnB\_Melb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@JohnB\_Melb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnB_Melb)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/122 "2012-08-28T13:06:10Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Brit here. Are you sure it’s not simply a long ‘a’ and not an added ‘r’? Contrast it with the short ‘a’ in ‘apple’ or ‘hat’. Or even the first two 'a’s in Samantha. Australian here, I agree with Quartz. When I read about this added R business, I thought absolutely not, it’s more like an “ahh” than an “R”. The British lass, “Donner Alexander” to which one person referred is not possessed of that extra “R”, it’s just that the pronunciation has omitted a glottal or other stop on the end of the “a” in Donna, and continued into “Alexander”. It’s just a short cut, it happens a fair bit in speech, and as a video editor, when editing people speaking who run words together, it can be a real pain in the arse. Oh, and one other British chap commented that he pronounces “Torque” and “Talk” the same. While I agree that they will sound very similar, I do believe that there may be an ever so slight difference in the tongue position between the two in deference to the “L” in talk, versus the “R” in torque. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/123 "2012-08-28T13:53:10Z")
> [@JohnB\_Melb](#): > > When I read about this added R business, I thought absolutely not, it’s more like an “ahh” than an “R”. > > The British lass, “Donner Alexander” to which one person referred is not possessed of that extra “R”, it’s just that the pronunciation has omitted a glottal or other stop on the end of the “a” in Donna, and continued into “Alexander”. Are you denying that the linking and intrusive _R_ exists? I’m afraid this would come as a surprise to a lot of linguists. There’s a very clear one at 1:12 in the Beatles’ “[A Day in the Life](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Q9D4dcYng).” John Lennon says, “I sawra film today.” ---
**Author:** ![vd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b19c9b/32.png) [@vd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vd)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/124 "2012-08-28T15:51:39Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > But Americans also don’t insert a glottal stop between the vowels. I do if the vowel sounds are close enough. It’s faint and I didn’t realize it until reading this thread today, but it’s there. It feels more as being on the beginning of the second vowel than after the preceding word. So “and” becomes sort of like a Cockney “hand” where the dropped-h is replaced with a soft glottal stop. My accent is mainly Californian with mid-western parents. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/125 "2012-08-28T17:14:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are you denying that the linking and intrusive _R_ exists? I’m afraid this would come as a surprise to a lot of linguists. > > There’s a very clear one at 1:12 in the Beatles’ “[A Day in the Life](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Q9D4dcYng).” John Lennon says, “I sawra film today.” If i stop and analyse the way I pronounce phrases like that, I can definitely detect an “r” sound in there (southern English accent). I do find it slightly odd that the people who have the “intrusive r”, like me, are in general the very people who _don’t_ pronounce the final “r” in words where it exists in the spelling! E.g. I’m sure some people would characterise my pronunciation of “water” as “war-tuh”, but “water in a cup” would be “war-ter-in-uh-cup”. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/126 "2012-08-28T17:21:04Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > If i stop and analyse the way I pronounce phrases like that, I can definitely detect an “r” sound in there (southern English accent). I do find it slightly odd that the people who have the “intrusive r”, like me, are in general the very people who _don’t_ pronounce the final “r” in words where it exists in the spelling! I’ve heard it described as the law of R conservation. > [@](#): > > E.g. I’m sure some people would characterise my pronunciation of “water” as “war-tuh”, but “water in a cup” would be “war-ter-in-uh-cup”. Actually to me it sounds like wa-ta-RIN a cup. The _R_ gets moved to the next word over. ---
**Author:** ![Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashley_Pomeroy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/127 "2012-08-28T17:30:53Z")
Fascinating topic. As a British person I don’t often contemplate the way that British people speak the language that my ancestors gifted to the world, because I am one of _them_ and I do it naturally, even when I’m typing. Which gives me a massive and unfair advantage over 99% of the Earth’s population, and do I care? Not a bit. Still, reading through Wikipedia’s article on the intrusive R I hadn’t realised that I pronounce “tuna oil” as “tuna roil”, _even though_ tuna by itself is “toonah”. There’s a class thing, though. A posh person would say “tuna (tiny pause) oil”, or more likely “olive oil”. It just feels more natural to say “tuna roil”, because otherwise I would have to say “TU-NA-O-YLE” in a kind of staccato way. “Tunaroil” just rolls off the tongue. Eww. “Who were better, Erasure ROAR The Pet Shop Boys”, etc, and the answer is of course The Pet Shop Boys. Obvious. But then again the fad for the last twenty years or so - even amongst posh people - has been to adopt an exaggerated parody of East Lahhndahhn cock-er-ney wide-boy guvnor apples and pears right royal barrel of monkeys shut it! get your trousers on yer nicked sunshine etc type of accent. So that even though actual Cockneys no longer exist, England is full of white people who pretend to sound like them. This is fading away into an imitation of a Jamaican-style accent, although a mock-American accent seems to be popular with kids as well. The irony is that The Sweeney didn’t sound like The Sweeney at all, John Thaw [spoke very clearly](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZuNTRbZBv8) because he was a distinguished actor and television was still up-tight in the late 1970s. So modern Britain is basically built on a lie, a misunderstanding. According to [the Daily Mail](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2000211/Cheryl-Coles-accent-conquered-US-sweeping-England.html) - you might not like it, but it _is_ England - this patois is called “Jafaican” (vomits) (commits self-harm) (anger) (tears). Apparently “_the Scouse accent found on Merseyside, and the Mancunian dialect will both hold firm and swell in influence, perhaps because the area is dominated by famous footballers like Wayne Rooney and soap stars from Coronation Street and Hollyoaks._” Ye Gods, a bleak future. Tuna roil, never thought about that before. Jesus, my own mouth turned against me. Who are you? In its charming non-offensive way the Mail has a guide to speaking Geordie, from which I learn that: “Geordie: Eeeh man, ahm gannin te the booza. Translation: Okay, I have had enough, I am going to the pub.” The sidebar only has two stories about Kim Kardashian today, something must be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/128 "2012-08-28T17:35:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I’ve heard it described as the law of R conservation. > > Actually to me it sounds like wa-ta-RIN a cup. The _R_ gets moved to the next word over. Which shouldn’t be too surprising, as then it appears functioning kind of as a linking R (even though there actually is an R in the word) as “watuh” ends in a vowel sound and “in” starts with a vowel sound. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/129 "2012-08-28T17:40:52Z")
I don’t think there’s any class element. The intrusive R has always been evident in all sorts of dialects. It’s more that there is no good way to transition from a word ending in a vowel sound to a word that begins in a vowel sound. You have to insert something, lest it become one long vowel. American English dialects employ a slight stop. Non-rhotic varieties of English use a transitional R sound. Perhaps the intrusive R is more noticeable to non-users than the stop is to non-rhotic speakers. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/130 "2012-08-28T17:46:32Z")
My food studies teacher did it i high school. She’d say “Thats a good idear”. It sounded like "Thats a good eye-dear. This song has a great example of the reverse of that too; The English singer sings “dark” and “park” mostly dropping the R. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2jH74e3Qo9k/hqdefault.jpg "Sultans of Swing (with lyrics)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jH74e3Qo9k) He even drops the L in sultans, and then seconds later, says it again with the L. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/131 "2012-08-28T17:54:45Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I don’t think there’s any class element. The intrusive R has always been evident in all sorts of dialects. It’s more that there is no good way to transition from a word ending in a vowel sound to a word that begins in a vowel sound. You have to insert something, lest it become one long vowel. American English dialects employ a slight stop. Nonsense. There is no reason “you have to insert something.” In my American English accent, I say “tuna oil” with neither a slight stop nor an intrusive R. It’s not an impossible feat to glide from one vowel to another without inserting anything. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/132 "2012-08-28T17:56:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Actually to me it sounds like wa-ta-RIN a cup. The _R_ gets moved to the next word over. Yes, that’s more like it. > [@Ashley Pomeroy](#): > > Still, reading through Wikipedia’s article on the intrusive R I hadn’t realised that I pronounce “tuna oil” as “tuna roil”, even though tuna by itself is “toonah”. “Tyoonah”, surely, unless you’ve adopted the American pronunciation? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/133 "2012-08-28T18:16:05Z")
What amuses me is the intrusive intrusive R which shows up when a non-rhotic speaker overcompensates as in [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moPRTR5ABE0&t=01m00s) where Rupert Grint attempts to speak with an american accent and says “mozzareller sticks.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/134 "2012-08-28T18:22:59Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What amuses me is the intrusive intrusive R which shows up when a non-rhotic speaker overcompensates as in [this clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moPRTR5ABE0&t=01m00s) where Rupert Grint attempts to speak with an american accent and says “mozzareller sticks.” Oh, yeah, that shows up all the time in '70s and '80s British sitcoms when there’s a British actor playing an American character. It’s hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/135 "2012-08-28T18:43:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Nonsense. There is no reason “you have to insert something.” In my American English accent, I say “tuna oil” with neither a slight stop nor an intrusive R. It’s not an impossible feat to glide from one vowel to another without inserting anything. Pretty difficult to glide between those two sounds without a _slight_ stop, no? While making it distinct from “toonoil”? And what about the Captain Pickard example, “Data and I”? There has to be some kind of gap between the two words, a slight interruption of breath. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/136 "2012-08-28T18:45:46Z")
Grew up with a friend who’s mom, Donna Alexander, was British (W. Midlands?). We’d ask her what her name was, and she was happy to indulge us: “_ **Donner Alexandah** _”. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/137 "2012-08-28T18:47:00Z")
rhoticization ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/138 "2012-08-28T19:09:33Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Grew up with a friend who’s mom, Donna Alexander, was British (W. Midlands?). > > We’d ask her what her name was, and she was happy to indulge us: > > “_ **Donner Alexandah** _”. You’ve already said that! (of course it was 557 days ago). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/139 "2012-08-28T19:12:36Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I don’t think there’s any class element. The intrusive R has always been evident in all sorts of dialects. It’s more that there is no good way to transition from a word ending in a vowel sound to a word that begins in a vowel sound. You have to insert something, lest it become one long vowel. American English dialects employ a slight stop. Non-rhotic varieties of English use a transitional R sound. Perhaps the intrusive R is more noticeable to non-users than the stop is to non-rhotic speakers. Except that where I from (New England) the intrusive r in a word like China will show up even when it’s the last word in a sentence and even when it’s the last word uttered. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223/140 "2012-08-28T19:13:15Z")
Hm. I said “rhoticization” long after “rhotic” was bandied about. I hope no one was getting it up to point that out to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-add-an-r-sound/571223.md?page=8)