# British/American allyship **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 13, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920 "2012-11-13T20:55:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/21 "2012-11-14T14:07:45Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I’ve always assumed that the strong cultural and language ties make the US and UK more natural allies, regardless of long-past conflicts. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/22 "2012-11-14T14:27:30Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Wouldn’t France be more likely our best ally? > > We’ve fought 2 wars with the UK (1776 & 1812), but never one with France\*. In fact, the French were our ally in our evolutionary war with the UK. And about half our country is on land we bought from France at a bargain price. > > \*There was the French and Indian war, but that was the British colonies fighting France, not the USA. And that was longer ago than both our wars with Britain. We fought the [Quasi-War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War) with France in 1798. The French were mad that, despite declarations of neutrality in the conflict between England and France, we were negotiating trade deals with England. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/23 "2012-11-14T15:04:24Z")
> [@whc.03grady](#): > > I was looking for something less formal than “alliance”. “FWB”? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/24 "2012-11-14T16:21:45Z")
Above all, strong cultural ties between the United States and Britain played a major role. There is a reason that the dominant elite in the US was referred to for the longest time as White\*\* Anglo-Saxon\*\* Protestant. The American Revolution was the story of a rebellious, rowdy and fiercely independent child leaving home when the parents just couldn’t let go. But when push comes to shove, one sticks together against a common foe. I addition to this, there was and still is a special bond between the English speaking (and predominantly white) nations which used to be British colonies. For instance, certain military intelligence to this day is only shared among the United Kingdom, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/25 "2012-11-14T16:22:16Z")
I always heard it was during WWI. Before we entered the war there was a lot of waffling about which side we should support, if any. The US has/had a sizable German population and heritage, and there was the lingering 1776/1812 anger against Great Britain. But the Lusitania nudged us towards the UK and since the Armistice our countries have been great chums. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/26 "2012-11-14T16:35:50Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Above all, strong cultural ties between the United States and Britain played a major role. There is a reason that the dominant elite in the US was referred to for the longest time as White\*\* Anglo-Saxon\*\* Protestant. The American Revolution was the story of a rebellious, rowdy and fiercely independent child leaving home when the parents just couldn’t let go. But when push comes to shove, one sticks together against a common foe. > > I addition to this, there was and still is a special bond between the English speaking (and predominantly white) nations which used to be British colonies. For instance, certain military intelligence to this day is only shared among the United Kingdom, the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. A special and cultural bond which riles the French. The ‘anglo-saxons’ is a dismissive insult the French still like to throw around at the anglosphere countries. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/27 "2012-11-14T16:47:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Who says the UK would attack? Just laugh at the Americans and let them try and travel 3,000 miles. > Besides, they got 5 mill! > 🙂 And today there would be 60 states. 🙂 The aforementioned US military capability is what induced Canada to form the Dominion, in pre-emptive self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/28 "2012-11-14T16:56:59Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > . The American Revolution was the story of a rebellious, rowdy and fiercely independent child leaving home when the parents just couldn’t let go. It’s the story of a bunch of guys not wanting to pay their taxes, but your idea sounds better. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/29 "2012-11-14T17:24:41Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > In other words, British forces would have had a 3,000-mile long supply chain and would have been invading a country that had a significantly bigger population. There would have been ass-kicking, all right, but in the other direction. [Truly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Maratha_War) an impossible [hurdle for](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War) [19th century](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War) [England](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion) ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/30 "2012-11-14T17:25:57Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > In other words, British forces would have had a 3,000-mile long supply chain and would have been invading a country that had a significantly bigger population. There would have been ass-kicking, all right, but in the other direction. [Truly](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Maratha_War) [an impossible](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812) [hurdle for](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War) [19th century](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War) [England](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/31 "2012-11-14T21:38:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Why would they pay reparations for that? > If they weren’t busy fighting all of Europe as they were in 1776 and 1812, I’m sure they could kick USA ass. Britain agreed to submit the dispute to international arbitration (first time this has been done) and paid the award made against it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/32 "2012-11-14T21:45:18Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Britain agreed to submit the dispute to international arbitration (first time this has been done) and paid the award made against it. And in turn got 5 mill over the fisheries thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/33 "2012-11-15T02:34:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > [QUOTE=SanVito] > > I’ve always assumed that the strong cultural and language ties make the US and UK more natural allies, regardless of long-past conflicts. I agree. [/QUOTE] So did Bismarck. When asked what was the greatest political fact of modern times, he replied: ‘The inherited and permanent fact that North America speaks English.’ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/34 "2012-11-15T03:24:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > So did Bismarck. > > When asked what was the greatest political fact of modern times, he replied: ‘The inherited and permanent fact that North America speaks English.’ Wilhelm’s [worst mistake.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropping_the_Pilot) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/35 "2012-11-15T16:14:26Z")
The U.S. and U.K. almost came to blows during the Civil War: [Trent Affair - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trent_incident) U.S. isolationism and anti-British feeling persisted even into the early days of World War II. Roald Dahl, as a wounded young RAF officer, was involved in efforts to gather intelligence and to make U.S. public opinion more pro-British before Pearl Harbor: [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/The-Irregulars-British-Wartime-Washington/dp/B003JTHSD6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352995998&sr=8-1&keywords=roald+dahl+irregulars) ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/36 "2012-11-16T18:49:50Z")
Speaking of tensions between the British and Americans, this seems like a good time to bring up [The Pig War of 1859](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_war). ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920/37 "2012-11-16T18:54:49Z")
I think the British allowing the Americans to inherit their intelligence methods during / after WWII was probably the start of the modern relationship. Obviously, building the alliance was a gradual process over many decades, but I would argue that the signing of the Atlantic Charter in 1941 and the UKUSA Agreement in 1946 were key events in what we would recognize as the modern “phase” of the US/UK relationship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-allyship/640920.md?page=1)