# British, American different turns of phrase **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 22, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070 "2010-12-22T13:58:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/221 "2010-12-30T21:59:12Z")
Any hypotheses as to whether British English uses fewer sports idioms - or merely different ones? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/222 "2010-12-30T22:30:42Z")
I would guess that it’s about the same. On the one hand, we know very little of baseball-- I don’t know what a “pinch hitter” is, for example, and I am confident that it would not be understood by anyone I regularly converse with-- but likewise, Americans seem to regard cricket as something alien and unfathomable, despite it being basically the same game. From cricket we have many phrases such as “knocked me for six”, or “he played a straight bat”, meaning he was honest and/or conservative in his dealings. And there are many phrases from the historically important sport of horse racing, such as “in the home straight”, or “won by a nose”. Not so many that I can think of from the dominant sport of today, soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/223 "2010-12-30T22:35:36Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > **Misnomer** , there’s no difference between “required” and “mandatory” - I was actually trying to use what I thought was an American term, to make myself more comprehensible! Gotcha: I was just confused by there being eight required O-levels/CSEs _and_ two mandatory ones (“Students of 14 to 16 years age, in my day, were required to take O-levels or CSEs in about eight subjects, at least two of which were mandatory, English and Mathematics”). 😉 > [@Ximenean](#): > > “in the home straight” We would say “in the home stretch.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/224 "2010-12-30T22:39:37Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > Gotcha: I was just confused by there being eight required O-levels/CSEs _and_ two mandatory ones (“Students of 14 to 16 years age, in my day, were required to take O-levels or CSEs in about eight subjects, at least two of which were mandatory, English and Mathematics”). 😉 I think he’s saying that they are required to take English, mathematics, and six other subjects of their choice. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/225 "2010-12-30T22:47:53Z")
Similar amount, different ones. Football (often not actually about the game, but rather famous malapropisms by pundits, similar to “Yogi-isms” ): Derby Clean sheet Handbags Dummy run Offside! Yellow card/red card The boy done good They think it’s all over… Early doors Cricket: Beamer Flannel Sticky wicket Back foot Howzat Sledging Rugby: Forwards/Backs League vs Union Scrum Ruck Up and under First XV Kick for touch Good in the set pieces, poor\* in the field That’s all I can think of, but then I’m a girl. \*_My father uses this in mixed company to describe someone who can’t think outside the box or be left to make their own decisions. “Poor” is usually replaced by something stronger, but I’d stick to this version if you want to use it._ ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/226 "2010-12-30T22:48:10Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I think he’s saying that they are required to take English, mathematics, and six other subjects of their choice. Correct. I may be a little out of date. In my day, you had to take at least eight subjects (nine if you were deemed clever enough), which included the two obligatory/mandatory/compulsory/required/whatever-the-damn-word-is subjects of mathematics and English. You had a separate examination in each subject, CSE or GCE, depending on how good you were in each case. Every year, there would be some swot/brainbox who got eight or nine grade As, meaning a clean sweep of O-Levels. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/227 "2010-12-31T00:54:58Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I swear that one’s a SDMB thing. I’ve never heard anyone say “maths” anywhere else, but around here people are forever talking about maths. Everyone says “maths” in the UK. I’ve never met someone who didn’t. At school, my teachers and fellow students did. The BBC does. My friends do. My friends kids, and my friends’ kids’ teachers do. Everyone. “Math” is very distinctly American. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/228 "2010-12-31T01:00:07Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > That reminds me of another difference: in England, “high school” is 1st through 5th years (maybe also 6th?), which would be the rough equivalent of 6th through 10th (maybe also 11th) grades. In the US, “high school” is typically 9th through 12th grades. > > Also, what seemed to be commonly called a “primary school” in England would be called a grade/grammar/elementary school in the States – though we do sometimes talk about "primary school students. We use “primary” and “secondary” school; we don’t say “high school” (at least we didn’t - who knows what they call it now.) Not much point explaining that in the US, “high school” is typically 9th through 12th grades without explaining what those grades mean; so I’ve no point of comparison. The only way to discuss this would be to discuss ages, I suspect. Primary school: 5-10/11 Secondary school: 11-16 Sixth Form or College: 17-18 University: Generally 18-21, but can be any age above 17. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/229 "2010-12-31T01:26:22Z")
Americans start school at 6, so you add 6 to the grade to get the age. So the TV show is "Are you smarter than a… US: 4th Grader? UK:10 year old? ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/230 "2010-12-31T04:37:38Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Americans start school at 6, so you add 6 to the grade to get the age. > > So the TV show is "Are you smarter than a… > US: 4th Grader? > UK:10 year old? Most Americans start school at 5. And the show is 5th grader. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/231 "2010-12-31T04:53:56Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Most Americans start school at 5. Do you still add 6, or do you therefore add 7? Man, if you yanks can’t agree on what your grade system means, no wonder we haven’t a clue what you’re on about when you say “8th grade”. That could be anything from a toddler to a septegenarian for all I know! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/232 "2010-12-31T05:26:44Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Do you still add 6, or do you therefore add 7? Neither - you add five. Typically you start 1st Grade at age 6, 2nd Grade at age 7 etc. Age 5 is Kindergarten or “K.” Younger than K is pre-K. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/233 "2010-12-31T05:27:08Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Do you still add 6, or do you therefore add 7? > > Man, if you yanks can’t agree on what your grade system means, no wonder we haven’t a clue what you’re on about when you say “8th grade”. That could be anything from a toddler to a septegenarian for all I know! 😃 Most kids have a birthday sometime during the school year! So you could add 5 or 6. Not 7 unless the kid is slow. Leave us yanks alone, there is some rhyme and reason to our madness. Well, sometimes. Do not ask me to explain the electoral college. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/234 "2010-12-31T08:50:35Z")
Granted, this isn’t a turn of phrase, but I’ve been wondering this for a while. The whole thing about lawyers and judges wearing wigs: WTF?! Someone explain to me how that works. Like do they HAVE TO do it, or what? What would happen if one chose not to, and just waltzed into the courtroom with an obscenely naked head? I know there is no shortage of things to mock about the American justice system too, but that one just baffles me. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/235 "2010-12-31T09:31:08Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Granted, this isn’t a turn of phrase, but I’ve been wondering this for a while. The whole thing about lawyers and judges wearing wigs: WTF?! Someone explain to me how that works. Like do they HAVE TO do it, or what? What would happen if one chose not to, and just waltzed into the courtroom with an obscenely naked head? > > I know there is no shortage of things to mock about the American justice system too, but that one just baffles me. Well, first of all you have to understand that us Brits do love a bit (lot) of tradition and pageantry. It’s why we’ve still got our pet Royals, after all. So in that sense, it’s a hold over from the time when _everyone_ wore wigs (17th&18th centuries), and lawyers just wore ‘standardised’ ones as part of their general lawyerly uniform (much as they still wear gowns, priest still wear robes etc etc), and no one sees any reason to change it. The other reason I’ve heard put forth by the legal establishment is that it’s about removing individualism (so all lawyers look the same and can’t show off their fancy mohicans/dreads/bald patches) as a sign of impartiality. Finally, wigs are only worn by judges and barristers in certain courts such as the High Court, and in some cases involving children, the judge can direct everyone to remove their wigs to present a less intimidating image. A barrister who refused to wear one would presumably be held in contempt of court and removed and/or fined. Just for fun, here’s a pic of [Tony Blair’s wife](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/uk_politics_cherie_blair0s_hair/html/5.stm) in her work uniform. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/236 "2010-12-31T09:50:08Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. Though I only went to the one school (Upper Nidderdale High School, _represent_!) so I could only speak to that from experience. 🙂 Yes, sorry, I was just clarifying the whole uniform thing for others unfamiliar with the practice. > [@Misnomer](#): > > The biggest difference between US uniforms and English uniforms was the ties: it amused me that both boys _and_ girls wore them. I LOVED wearing a tie, mainly because I’m a big tomboy. To be fair, the practice is changing – I notice, for instance, that [my school](http://www.edgbastonhigh.co.uk/) no longer has compulsory ties as part of the uniform, which is a shame. In my day, we even had to wear a [[URL=“http://viswiki.com/en/Gymslip”]tunic](http://viswiki.com/en/Gymslip) up til the age of 14, which I loathed, and had to get written permission from the Headmistress to switch to a skirt. In the 6th form (age 16-18), we were allowed to wear our own clothes, but had to dress smartly as if going to work in an office – no jeans, and in my day, not even trousers (pants). ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/237 "2010-12-31T10:34:58Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > Americans have been conflicted about the route pronunciation for many years. Nat King Cole sings root (actually “on Route,” not “en route”) in the song “Route 66” and the Beach Boys sing root in “Surfin USA.” I think for many Americans it’s a very situational pronunciation depending on the context or simply the mood of the speaker at the moment. Am not sure why “in” would be more common than “on” though. American here: Consider the electronic appliance that directs wireless data within one’s household. I think the common American pronunciation is “rowt-er”, not “root-er”. I did take a little flak for this back in the pre-internet days. But I’ve always pronounced it “rowt-er”. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/238 "2010-12-31T12:08:24Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Do you still add 6, or do you therefore add 7? > > Man, if you yanks can’t agree on what your grade system means, no wonder we haven’t a clue what you’re on about when you say “8th grade”. That could be anything from a toddler to a septegenarian for all I know! 😃 😕 We know what our grade system means. A quick run-down, and bear in mind there is some regional flexibility. I will explain the most common possibilities when I get there. I think there is some confusion over kindergarten. Kindergarten is not equivalent to pre-school, or nursery school, which many parents send their children to from the ages of 2 to 5 (sometimes only a few days a week), where kids participate in structured and hopefully educational play. Pre-schools are voluntary and are usually privately run, although there are programs to subsidize pre-school for low-income families. Kindergarten is the first year of formal schooling and is part of the regular, mandatory education system. Obviously the ages are going to vary, but the ages I’m giving are the ages of the vast majority of the kids when they begin the school year in August or September. Kindergarten - age 5 1st grade - age 6 2nd grade - age 7 3rd grade - age 8 4th grade - 9 5th - 10 6th - 11 7th - 12 8th - 13 9th - 14 (freshman year of high school) 10th - 15 (sophomore year of high school) 11th - 16 (junior year of high school) 12th - 17 (senior year of high school) GRADUATION How the schools are broken up depends on the school district. In my experience, the most common breakdown is: elementary school: K-5 middle school: 6-8 high school: 9-12 The school district I went to, though, has 6th grade as part of elementary school, 7th & 8th are by themselves in junior high (an alternate term for middle school), and then 9th-12th are high school. I’ve also heard of middle schools having grades 7-9, and then high school being grades 10-12. When a kid can drop out of school depends on the state. I think it’s usually around 16. There is also an exam, the GED, that one can take to fulfill the high school requirements - passing the GED is supposedly equivalent to having a high school diploma. In practice, someone with a GED is going to have a lot more trouble getting into a university than someone who actually graduated high school, though. Within the school system, there is going to be a wide variation of what is offered and how students fit in. Because the US school system is extremely decentralized, my own experience will not match a lot of other people’s, but I offer it up as an example: From kindergarten to sixth grade, I had a single teacher every year, who taught every subject. We stayed in the same classroom all the time. Starting in seventh grade, with junior high, we had specialized teachers for each subject, and we got to take two electives, along with all of the required stuff (math, English, history, etc.) - I took Spanish and band. You could also take stuff like art and choir and French and probably a bunch of other stuff it never occurred to me to take. In high school, the choices broadened, and we were totally unofficially but nevertheless placed into tracks. The poor students took lower level courses and the advanced students took honors classes. My high school had six periods, with an optional seventh class, before regular classes began. I think most American high schools have 45 minute classes, but mine had block scheduling - 3 periods of 100 minute classes, alternating days. There are no nationwide required exams in the US. Some states do have their own exams. There are two college entrance exams, the SAT (and SAT II, which also tests a specific subject of the student’s choice) and the ACT, but they are administered by private companies and are in no way required by the government. However, most universities require you take one or the other to apply for entrance. There are also the Advanced Placement (AP) exams, which test students’ knowledge of specific subjects. These are voluntary and not required. Usually, students take them after a year or semester of a class that specifically prepares them for the exam. For instance, my 12th grade English class was titled AP Literature and Language, and while my teacher’s goal was definitely to teach us a lot about English lit, there was always the exam in the back of our minds. The AP tests are given in April, I think. (After the tests are over, AP classes tend to degenerate into mayhem for the final weeks of the school year.) Many colleges and universities will give credit to students who do well enough on AP tests. How many AP classes a school has is a pretty good marker of how wealthy the school district is, since some of them are for subjects that aren’t often taught in high schools (like music theory and Russian). In closing, I have insomnia. I know this was really long and I hope it even makes some amount of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/239 "2010-12-31T14:12:12Z")
Here’s one I hear all the time – U.K.: “I left school in 2001.” U.S.: “I graduated from high school in 2001.” To me, the word “leave” is very odd in this context. It sounds like you just left, nevermind meeting any requirements. Even “I finished school” would seem to be more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070/240 "2010-12-31T15:03:22Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I think he’s saying that they are required to take English, mathematics, and six other subjects of their choice. :smack: Thanks! > [@Candyman74](#): > > We use “primary” and “secondary” school; we don’t say “high school” (at least we didn’t - who knows what they call it now.) Again, I can only speak from my own experience: the school I went to was called “Upper Nidderdale High School,” and all of the locals referred to it as “the high school.” Maybe it was an early-80s/Yorkshire thing? > [@Candyman74](#): > > > [@Misnomer](#): > > > > That reminds me of another difference: in England, “high school” is 1st through 5th years (maybe also 6th?), which would be the rough equivalent of 6th through 10th (maybe also 11th) grades. In the US, “high school” is typically 9th through 12th grades. > > Not much point explaining that in the US, “high school” is typically 9th through 12th grades without explaining what those grades mean; so I’ve no point of comparison. I provided a point of comparison when I said that (your) 1st through 5th years was the rough equivalent of (our) 6th through 10th grades. Don’t get your knickers in a twist over your own poor reading comprehension. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-american-different-turns-of-phrase/565070.md?page=13)