# British are taking children away from obese mom's who will not control their weight - Is this just? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 26, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131 "2009-10-26T02:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/1 "2009-10-26T02:59:21Z")
[Seems pretty draconian.](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article6883919.ece?fatterlink) Is having obese children tantamount to child abuse? > [@](#): > > Social workers have moved to take into care a baby born to an obese mother. > > The mother — who cannot be named in order to protect the identity of the children — gave birth by Caesarean section last week in a Dundee hospital but was told within 24 hours that she would not be allowed to keep the baby. > > She has already had the youngest of her six children, aged 3 and 4, removed from her care because social workers feared that they were at risk of becoming obese. The 40-year-old mother weighed 23 stone before falling pregnant. > > The parents originally contacted social workers themselves to seek help with managing their children, one of whom has developmental problems. At that time they had a toddler who weighed 4 stone and a 13-year-old boy who weighed more than 16 stone. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/2 "2009-10-26T03:03:49Z")
How much is a stone, anyway? And why to British people “fall” pregnant? Did she trip over something and land on an erect penis? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/3 "2009-10-26T03:05:35Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > How much is a stone, anyway? 1 stone = 14 pounds ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/4 "2009-10-26T03:20:56Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > 1 stone = 14 pounds :eek: She had a 13 year old that weighed more than 225 lbs!? Holy crap. That’s almost \*double \*my weight and I’m twice his age! ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/5 "2009-10-26T03:32:32Z")
I’m disturbed that the decision was made to remove the children rather than giving this family some nutritional counseling, some aid in getting themselves on a better health path for parents and children alike. For a 13 year old to weigh 224 lbs. and a toddler to weigh 56 lbs. there is a complete and utter lack of understanding of healthful food. That’s not going to be solved by taking the kids away, that’s going to be solved by education. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/6 "2009-10-26T05:19:25Z")
According to the article, she was warned that she would need to bring her other children’s weight problems under control. She had an existing relationship with social services and was not being compliant. It’s not like they just walked into a hospital, saw a fat lady, and grabbed the baby. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Why\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@The\_Why\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Why_Bird)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/7 "2009-10-26T07:11:42Z")
It sounds like social services have been involved with this family for a long time. I doubt this is the only factor. Removing a child is a long legal process, and mum probably knew this was on the cards a long long time ago. I’m not a huge fan of the social care system, and professionally I’ve seen some cases poorly handled, but there is obviously a lot going on here that we haven’t heard about. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/8 "2009-10-26T07:25:36Z")
That "British are taking children away from obese mom’s who will not control their weight " sounds like a typical _Daily Mail_ headline that bears no relationship with the actual story. Once you get past the headline you find that it’s just one mother and one child, and not general Social Services policy. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/9 "2009-10-26T07:40:21Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > It’s not like they just walked into a hospital, saw a fat lady, and grabbed the baby. oh my god say it again, some place public and walk away. out of context that just makes my sleep deprived brain all happy ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/10 "2009-10-26T11:45:48Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > I’m disturbed that the decision was made to remove the children rather than giving this family some nutritional counseling, some aid in getting themselves on a better health path for parents and children alike. For a 13 year old to weigh 224 lbs. and a toddler to weigh 56 lbs. there is a complete and utter lack of understanding of healthful food. That’s not going to be solved by taking the kids away, that’s going to be solved by education. Do you have any reason to assume those measures had not already been tried? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/11 "2009-10-26T11:58:45Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > There is a complete and utter lack of understanding of healthful food. That’s not going to be solved by taking the kids away, that’s going to be solved by education. Also, social workers and health professionals nowadays try to base their decisions on academic evidence. Do you know of any studies that show this “education” that you describe can solve major eating disorders like the ones in this family? That demonstrate the circumstances under which a child could be expected to lose a huge amount of weight while still living with the family that enabled the original weight gain? ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/12 "2009-10-26T13:08:34Z")
Is it just? Good lord, man – it’s not even true. > [@](#): > > Dundee City Council said: … “We have made it clear on numerous occasions that children would not be removed from a family environment just because of a weight issue.” As a general rule, Social Services won’t comment in detail on individual cases, so it seems that _The Times_ is simply taking the father’s word for what’s going on. Given the statement from Dundee Council, we have to assume there were other factors in the decision to take the children into care – factors that the father, for whatever reason, has chosen not to mention, or which _The Times_ has decided not to report. It seems to me they could have titled the article “Social workers remove new-born baby from Scottish mother” and been no less accurate or relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/13 "2009-10-26T13:24:10Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > I’m disturbed that the decision was made to remove the children rather than giving this family some nutritional counseling, some aid in getting themselves on a better health path for parents and children alike. For a 13 year old to weigh 224 lbs. and a toddler to weigh 56 lbs. there is a complete and utter lack of understanding of healthful food. That’s not going to be solved by taking the kids away, that’s going to be solved by education. All she has to do is google “healthy food” or anything similar. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/14 "2009-10-26T13:27:14Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > As a general rule, Social Services won’t comment in detail on individual cases, so it seems that _The Times_ is simply taking the father’s word for what’s going on. Even before you posted this I was going to come back and say that this is invariably the case with this type of article in the UK. A family could pretty much invent any allegations they like about what the authorities have done. Quite often the press will report these as the truth, but any professionals actually involved in the case are barred by several types of law and regulation from explaining their side of the story. Much of the right wing press in the UK love to stick it into the public sector (except for female nurses in physical medicine, for whom they have a Madonna complex). Social work is their favourite scapegoat, since the departments involved can almost never answer back. It’s an easy way for lazy and unscrupulous journalists to take the moral highground, increase sales and pretend to be “sticking up for the little guy”. Having said that, this particular report is not as sensationalist as some you see. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/15 "2009-10-26T13:29:41Z")
> [@Gustav](#): > > All she has to do is google “healthy food” or anything similar. Really? Is that _ **all** _ the mother needs to do to help her children lose weight? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/16 "2009-10-26T13:31:11Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > :eek: She had a 13 year old that weighed more than 225 lbs!? Holy crap. That’s almost \*double \*my weight and I’m twice his age! IIRC, that’s how much I weighed at 14. Edit: and I was under the impression that this wasn’t a big deal, simply because my parents were more overweight at the time. So I can see the point of the Brits here, even if I think they are taking unjustifiably extreme measures. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/17 "2009-10-26T13:51:08Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > So I can see the point of the Brits here, even if I think they are taking unjustifiably extreme measures. Not sure Dundee City Council Children and Families Department has often before seen as speaking for all of “the Brits” before! More seriously, you haven’t attended any of the relevant case conferences in this case (and if you had you’d be breaking the law by posting here) so you have no idea what justification has been used for these measures, you have no idea what pros and cons of any possible action were discussed. As has been pointed out already, the article can only ever give one side of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/18 "2009-10-26T13:54:14Z")
> [@](#): > > A hearing tomorrow will discuss a social work application to remove the family’s remaining three children. > [@](#): > > “We have made it clear on numerous occasions that children would not be removed from a family environment just because of a weight issue.” I wonder what the other issues are that only allows them to take the kids a few at a time? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/19 "2009-10-26T14:07:06Z")
> [@Scheidt-Hoch](#): > > Not sure Dundee City Council Children and Families Department has often before seen as speaking for all of “the Brits” before! > > More seriously, you haven’t attended any of the relevant case conferences in this case (and if you had you’d be breaking the law by posting here) so you have no idea what justification has been used for these measures, you have no idea what pros and cons of any possible action were discussed. As has been pointed out already, the article can only ever give one side of the story. I am aware. I was simply pointing out that latent obesity in the parents can have adverse effects on a child. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131/20 "2009-10-26T14:09:09Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > I wonder what the other issues are that only allows them to take the kids a few at a time? IANA children and families social worker, but I believe any such orders have to be made in the “best interests of the child” - there are lots of reasons why SWs and courts would see the best interests of a 13 year old, say, as being completely different from those of a new born baby or a 4 year old. It could be anything, such as schooling, family bonds or antagonisms, the child’s personal preference etc etc. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-are-taking-children-away-from-obese-moms-who-will-not-control-their-weight-is-this-just/515131.md?page=2)