# British Dopers -- Are there really British women like Hyacinth... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 21, 2003, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274 "2003-12-21T05:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274/21 "2003-12-22T13:42:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by curly chick \* > Alf was a foul mouthed, pro-monarchist xenophobe who believed ferevently in the British Empire and followed Millwall religiously. West Ham United, not Millwall. Let’s not blame Millwall for everything ;). Spot on point though. Apart from the shows I’ve already mentioned, I’m sure you could take elements from _Trading Places_ or even _Legally Blonde_ to make a comedy about a person who doesn’t come from a preppy, Ivy League, Country Club background but aspiring to fit in with their set and being made to feel out of place. It wouldn’t necessarily be funny, of course, but then I don’t like _Keeping Up Appearances_. **Herge** : we could debate the relative profit and loss for working people under the Thatcher government, but the growth of the working class Tory was certainly a feature of the '80s. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274/22 "2003-12-22T14:47:31Z")
It seems to me that, yes, America and the UK have class systems, but posters here from both sides of the Atlantic are missing the contrast between money and breeding–there are two different class systems in operation and that seems to be cuasing some confusion. Take Richard Branson. He’s rich, famous, handsome, accepted in all the right circles, and yet, well, he’s not of Us, surely? In one system, money is the only qualification required to enter the very highest circles of privilege. A jumped-up yob with a red brick school degree who has worked his way up to a CEO-ship can count on being invited to hang with the GOP or Tory leadership, invited to the best parties, and enjoy all the accoutrements of the rich. Yet there is another system, in which even the richest and most accomplished folks may be scorned (sotto voce, of course) because they speak with the wrong accent and their daddies didn’t send them to Choate or Eton. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274/23 "2003-12-22T15:00:01Z")
Agreed. But to which of those systems do [these people](http://www.dar.org/default.cfm) belong? Or [this man](http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page127.asp) or [this](http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page125.asp)? It would be a mistake to assume that one system operates in the UK and the other in the US (not that I’m accusing you of any confusion, **gobear** ). ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274/24 "2003-12-30T13:53:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\*But what could compare to when Hyacinth gives Richard cereal because the Dutch royal family eats it…She’d have to have what, some movie star eat it??? \*\* If you saw the movie **To Die For** , based on the book by Joyce Maynard, you’d remember that Nicole Kidman’s character wanted to be in broadcasting. Not because she loved journalism, or even understood much about politics and society beyond what gets good ratings, but because she was an attention whore, and broadcasters get constant exposure. To this end, everything she did was modeled after TV people. Her wedding veil was an _exact replica!_ of the one Maria Shriver wore when she married Arnold. She had a dinner party for her inlaws, and served some ridiculously elaborate stuff (actually bought ready-made) because “They had this at Johnny Carson’s house!” She kept her maiden name because Jane Pauley had done so. And like that. So her motivations were not markedly dissimilar to Hyacinth’s. She just got better results because she was younger, better-looking, and much more shrewd. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274/25 "2003-12-30T17:04:08Z")
Britain doesn’t really have a class system anymore. The only real differention is between those that work and those that don’t need to. People rise and fall on their own merit. ---
**Author:** ![Theom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9a28c/32.png) [@Theom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theom)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274/26 "2003-12-30T20:56:54Z")
\*\* qts \*\* I wouldn’t agree with that, the class system is stronger than it ever was, the emphasis has simply shifted. Rather than title, we hanker after celebrity, look at the reality TV shows. There is a whole class system of celebrity, people like Jorden are down on the bottom, Serina McKellen is way up on top (you go girl). Going back to the op discussion of HB one could compare her to, say, the Hilton girls, trying to enter a society that aint gonna have 'em because (IMHO at least) they are jerks. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274/27 "2003-12-30T21:56:03Z")
I don’t agree that there is a new celebrity-based class system. How many people are actively seeking celebrity? How many of those “celebrities” vanish into obscurity after 15 minutes, and how many actually last? I can honestly say I don’t seek celebrity, and while an anecdote is pretty worthless as wider evidence I’d be surprised if that isn’t true for the majority of Britons if they genuinely thought about it. No, there may be remnants of the older class system, particularly in some communities and occupations, but it’s about poverty and other defining characteristics these days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-are-there-really-british-women-like-hyacinth/220274.md?page=1)