# British Dopers: re Torches **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096 "2010-10-23T13:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/21 "2010-10-23T18:08:47Z")
Really, it’s a bit of a red herring to think of this as a problem for words that mean two very different things, because it happens all the time with words that mean several _not so different_ things. For example: Fork. Do I mean an item of cutlery, or a garden implement? Knife. Again, cutlery, or a kitchen knife, a craft knife or an outdoorsman’s knife? Sure, they’re all knives, but the wrong kind of knife is as wrong as a flaming torch when you wanted an electric one. Spoon. Am I stirring my tea, or serving a trifle? And so on. In many cases, the wrong type of object is still completely wrong. Context is everything. ---
**Author:** ![rodent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@rodent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rodent)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/22 "2010-10-24T11:56:38Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I dunno, how do Americans distinguish between the metal covering for their car’s engine and the cloth covering for their head? Ever get confused? The same way British distinguish between the metal covering for their car’s engine and the cloth covering for their head. However, the American metal engine cover seems a little less wimpy to me than the British version.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/23 "2010-10-24T12:22:13Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I’m not British but we also use torch for flashlight. Generally “flaming torch” will suffice although I can think of only a few instances where context wouldn’t immediately illuminate as to the specific meaning. That is to say, unless talking about villagers attacking Frankenstein’s monster most of the time we’d be talking about the battery operated device. Thank you, now I can’t shake the image of a bunch of peasants waving pitchforks and Maglites. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/24 "2010-10-24T12:45:40Z")
> [@TheChileanBlob](#): > > Wait, the “half two” thing. I’ve always been unsure- is is 2:30 (half after) or 1:30 (half to)? It’s just an easier way of saying ‘half past [hour]’. The ‘past’ is filled in by the brain, thus it isn’t necessary to say (unless you haven’t grown up with people saying that). ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/25 "2010-10-24T17:16:40Z")
Nobody up here says “half two,” or indeed “a quarter of six,” that I’ve ever heard. To this day I am not quite certain whether “a quarter of six” means 5:45 or 6:15. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/26 "2010-10-24T17:30:09Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Nobody up here says “half two,” or indeed “a quarter of six,” that I’ve ever heard. To this day I am not quite certain whether “a quarter of six” means 5:45 or 6:15. In the UK we always say “half two” (2:30) and never say “quarter of…” (I’m not sure what the latter means either) ---
**Author:** ![AutumnLeaves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@AutumnLeaves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AutumnLeaves)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/27 "2010-10-24T18:02:49Z")
I think one difference between some examples above is that context would seperate them because they are very different objects - a hood for your hat and the hood of a car, say. Whereas electric torches and flaming branch torches are more or less used in the same circumstances. Context does help - if we’re talking about plane crash survivors or an angry mob, I’ll assume branch on fire. If we’re talking about what going down to the cellar, I’ll assume electric torch. But give it a few hundred years and it’ll be something that will confuse future school children, I bet. “Where would they get batteries on a desserted island?” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/28 "2010-10-24T22:12:46Z")
In American meetings, to ‘table’ something means to ‘lay it on the table’ (for later consideration) – in effect, to postpone discussing it until later (maybe never). The British meaning is almost exactly the opposite; to ‘table’ means to make it the top item on the table and discuss it immediately. I remember reading that this created confusion & arguments at some of the early meeting between British & American staff during WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/29 "2010-10-24T23:56:37Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > In American meetings, to ‘table’ something means to ‘lay it on the table’ (for later consideration) – in effect, to postpone discussing it until later (maybe never). The British meaning is almost exactly the opposite; to ‘table’ means to make it the top item on the table and discuss it immediately. No, it just means to raise a topic for discussion, to put it on the agenda. It doesn’t mean that it must be discussed now. And it is not particularly common usage. I’m sure there are many British people who wouldn’t understand the verb “table” in that context. But you’re right that it doesn’t mean “postpone”. Next up: “knocking up” ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/30 "2010-10-25T00:07:40Z")
> [@AutumnLeaves](#): > > I think one difference between some examples above is that context would seperate them because they are very different objects - a hood for your hat and the hood of a car, say. I assumed **njtt** was talking about bonnet and bonnet. 😛 Which I suppose just makes the whole thing more confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/31 "2010-10-25T03:11:10Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The British meaning is almost exactly the opposite; to ‘table’ means to make it the top item on the table and discuss it immediately. No, it doesn’t. I don’t know about WWII, but these days it has the meaning you described. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/32 "2010-10-25T03:24:12Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > No, it doesn’t. I don’t know about WWII, but these days it has the meaning you described. According to the [Oxford Dictionary](http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/table?view=uk) (they should know about British usage, _n’est-ce pas_?) **Ximenean** is a lot closer to it than you are. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/33 "2010-10-25T10:05:49Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > No, it just means to raise a topic for discussion, to put it on the agenda. It doesn’t mean that it must be discussed now. And it is not particularly common usage. I’m sure there are many British people who wouldn’t understand the verb “table” in that context. But you’re right that it doesn’t mean “postpone”. I agree that it means to ‘put something on the agenda’ - not for later or for now just ‘there’. I think most British people would recognise the verb in the context of parliamentary activity, as in ‘to table a motion’, i.e. to put forward a proposal for discussion in the House. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/34 "2010-10-25T10:43:27Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I’ve always been puzzled by the word “flashlight”, actually, because in typical usage what you do with that device is provide continuous illumination rather than brief flashes. I guess it compares with “always-on” gas / oil lamps. A flashlight could be used to create a short burst of light and then turn off again, rather than a lamp that’s always illuminated. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/35 "2010-10-25T15:27:17Z")
An Australian friend’s mother was somewhat shocked when an American friend of his introduced himself to her with the words “Hi, I’m Randy!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/36 "2010-10-25T15:47:25Z")
> [@](#): > > And “rubber” - an innocent eraser used by school children becames a risky item of contraception for adults. Americans seldom use “rubber” as a count noun, with any meaning. Someone talking about “a rubber” would seem odd to an American. Depending on how well-read the American is, and depending on the context, e might guess that it refers to a pencil eraser, a condom, a raincoat, or a boot (the kind you wear on your foot in inclement weather, not the storage compartment of a car), but an American probably wouldn’t use that word emself to refer to any of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/37 "2010-10-25T15:58:41Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Nobody up here says “half two,” or indeed “a quarter of six,” that I’ve ever heard. To this day I am not quite certain whether “a quarter of six” means 5:45 or 6:15. Actually I’ve heard people say that - but they’re not from Montreal, they’re from out West somewhere I think. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/38 "2010-10-25T16:11:46Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > “I bought my young son a jigsaw to keep him amused while I went out for the evening. Unfortunately, I returned to find that he had plugged it in and cut off three of his fingers” There wouldn’t be any potential ambiguity in the United States, because we call them “jigsaw puzzles.” A jigsaw is just a saw that can be used to make a jigsaw puzzle. > [@constanze](#): > > And “rubber” - an innocent eraser used by school children becames a risky item of contraception for adults. Or, rather, a “risk-reducing item of contraception for adults,” eh? > [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Nobody up here says “half two,” or indeed “a quarter of six,” that I’ve ever heard. To this day I am not quite certain whether “a quarter of six” means 5:45 or 6:15. A quarter of six would be 1:30, no? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/39 "2010-10-25T16:28:51Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > An interesting difference that Americans sometimes encounter, to much embarrassment, is the meaning of “pants” across the ocean. “Torch” is relatively harmless by comparison. “Pants” meaning underwear isn’t universal in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/40 "2010-10-25T17:11:42Z")
> [@](#): > > There wouldn’t be any potential ambiguity in the United States, because we call them “jigsaw puzzles.” A jigsaw is just a saw that can be used to make a jigsaw puzzle. Or more often just “puzzles”. But if I heard a parent say “I bought my toddler a jigsaw”, I’d assume they meant the puzzle, not the tool. Incidentally, most such puzzles nowadays are made with a die press, not any sort of saw at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096.md?page=3)