# British Dopers: re Torches **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096 "2010-10-23T13:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/41 "2010-10-25T17:30:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Or more often just “puzzles”. But if I heard a parent say “I bought my toddler a jigsaw”, I’d assume they meant the puzzle, not the tool. I would assume, but confirm: “You mean a jigsaw _puzzle_?” I’d consider it an odd usage. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/42 "2010-10-25T18:18:32Z")
Quarter of/quarter 'til: XX:45 Quarter after: XX:15 Minnesotan by birth. But I think the digital age is killing the “quarter” idiom - it confuses my kids. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/43 "2010-10-25T19:52:59Z")
“Knocking up” is also well served by considering the context. For instance when an English friend at a mystery conference said “So I’ll knock you up around seven, then?” it was perfectly, if not immediately, clear what she meant. Of course it helped that we’re both females. And that we were talking about going out for brekkie. ---
**Author:** ![Hairy\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecc23a/32.png) [@Hairy\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hairy_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/44 "2010-10-25T21:29:02Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > “Pants” meaning underwear isn’t universal in the UK. Really? Where in the UK does “Pants” not mean underwear then? ---
**Author:** ![kim\_jung\_il](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kim\_jung\_il](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kim_jung_il)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/45 "2010-10-26T06:27:58Z")
> [@Hairy\_Bob](#): > > Really? Where in the UK does “Pants” not mean underwear then? I don’t know anyone (from the UK) that wouldn’t use pants to mean underwear. People can say panties, briefs, y-fronts, etc, but pants is definitely the main name. SO, I agree 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/46 "2010-10-26T07:14:56Z")
> [@Hairy\_Bob](#): > > Really? Where in the UK does “Pants” not mean underwear then? I think it’s a matter of age as much as location. While “pants” may have meant underwear in some parts of the country before that, it seems to me that it was only in the 1990s that it became well-used nationwide. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/47 "2010-10-26T07:16:13Z")
[Words that could be confusing and embarrassing in the UK & US.](http://www.hash.st/ockholm/ukus.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/48 "2010-10-26T09:13:11Z")
I find the implication of the OP – that there is normally little or no possibility for ambiguity in English – amusing. I mean if we move to words like _make_, _set_, _run_ and so on, these are words with dozens or even hundreds of meanings (depending on whether you count slang or old-fashioned meanings). This is partly why it’s so hard to get computers to understand natural language; we bring a lot of outside knowledge to bear on trying to understand others. > [@Hilarity N. Suze](#): > > For instance when an English friend at a mystery conference said “So I’ll knock you up around seven, then?” it was perfectly, if not immediately, clear what she meant. Of course it helped that we’re both females. And that we were talking about going out for brekkie. Native brit here and I would certainly pause after hearing this. I think I’d guess the right meaning, but it does sound old-fashioned to my ears. The Americanism (if that’s what it is) is much more commonly used, IME. > [@Novelty Bobble](#): > > In the UK we always say “half two” (2:30) > … The less ambiguous “Half past two” may also be used, particularly in more formal speech. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/49 "2010-10-26T10:01:31Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > I think it’s a matter of age as much as location. While “pants” may have meant underwear in some parts of the country before that, it seems to me that it was only in the 1990s that it became well-used nationwide. Huh? 😕 I lived in the U.K. (and in several different parts of England) from the early 1950s until the end of the 1980s, and the things that men wear under their trousers - the things that Americans call underpants -were always and everywhere called pants. > [@Chronos](#): > > Americans seldom use “rubber” as a count noun, with any meaning. Someone talking about “a rubber” would seem odd to an American. Depending on how well-read the American is, and depending on the context, e might guess that it refers to a pencil eraser, a condom, a raincoat, or a boot (the kind you wear on your foot in inclement weather, not the storage compartment of a car), but an American probably wouldn’t use that word emself to refer to any of those things. Really? I have, several times, heard anecdotes about British people (usually children) coming to America and causing hilarity and embarrassment by asking for a rubber (=eraser), and being misunderstood as asking for a condom. On your account, there should be nothing embarrassing or funny about a British child in an American classroom asking for a rubber. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/50 "2010-10-26T10:13:36Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > [QUOTE=Hilarity N. Suze] > For instance when an English friend at a mystery conference said “So I’ll knock you up around seven, then?” it was perfectly, if not immediately, clear what she meant. Of course it helped that we’re both females. And that we were talking about going out for brekkie. Native brit here and I would certainly pause after hearing this. I think I’d guess the right meaning, but it does sound old-fashioned to my ears. The Americanism (if that’s what it is) is much more commonly used, IME. [/QUOTE] Yes, I initially mentioned “knocking up” because it always seems to come up in these discussions, and yet I don’t think I (a Brit) have ever heard anyone use it that way. The “getting pregnant” sense, yes I’ve heard that (usually worded something like “he knocked her up”). ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/51 "2010-10-26T10:21:40Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The less ambiguous “Half past two” may also be used, particularly in more formal speech. Just to add to the confusion. When the rest of us Germanic speakers (at least Germans and Scandinavians) say “half two” (or rather the equivalent thereof) we mean “half an hour **before** two”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/52 "2010-10-26T10:25:31Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > I think it’s a matter of age as much as location. While “pants” may have meant underwear in some parts of the country before that, it seems to me that it was only in the 1990s that it became well-used nationwide. Pants has meant underwear in the UK for a lot longer than that. Certainly long before I was born, and that was nearly 40 years ago. I’ve never met a British person who uses “pants” to mean “trousers”. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/53 "2010-10-26T10:29:42Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > then of course there are the different pronunciations of the same words… “You say, uh, “erb,” we say “herb.” _Because there’s a fucking ‘H’ in it!_” You mean because there’s a haitch in it? ETA: Japan also does the pants=underwear thing. Most of their stolen words are from American English, but occasionally other languages get play. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/54 "2010-10-26T10:31:44Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Pants has meant underwear in the UK for a lot longer than that. Certainly long before I was born, and that was nearly 40 years ago. > > I’ve never met a British person who uses “pants” to mean “trousers”. Pants have always meant underpants in the UK - or at least as long as i’ve been around to wear them, which takes us way back beyond the nineties. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/55 "2010-10-26T13:19:33Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Really? I have, several times, heard anecdotes about British people (usually children) coming to America and causing hilarity and embarrassment by asking for a rubber (=eraser), and being misunderstood as asking for a condom. On your account, there should be nothing embarrassing or funny about a British child in an American classroom asking for a rubber. “Rubber” was the usual term when I was a kid, but I think it has gone into decline with the safe sex era. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/56 "2010-10-26T16:02:39Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Really? I have, several times, heard anecdotes about British people (usually children) coming to America and causing hilarity and embarrassment by asking for a rubber (=eraser), and being misunderstood as asking for a condom. On your account, there should be nothing embarrassing or funny about a British child in an American classroom asking for a rubber. “Rubber” is an outdated term for a condom. My parents might use it, but no one my age (25) would. I hear someone call them “rubbers” about as often as someone calls something “groovy” or “far out”. I think if a kindergartner asked a teacher today for a rubber, the teacher would first think “That’s the British term for eraser” and _then_ think “Hey, that means condom here…sometimes.” It’d be like if a crew was building a deck for your house and the builder said to the construction worker “Hand me a driver\*.” The construction worker’s thoughts would go, in order, 1: I don’t know what a driver is, 2: He probably means screwdriver, and 3: We use that word for a person driving a car. It’d be the same for the teacher, I think. \*Not that UKers call them drivers AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/57 "2010-10-26T16:13:28Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I think if a kindergartner asked a teacher today for a rubber, the teacher would first think “That’s the British term for eraser” and _then_ think “Hey, that means condom here…sometimes.” While I agree that “rubber” is falling out of fashion, I think this statement is untrue. The British meaning is still less well-known than the old-fashioned American meaning. ---
**Author:** ![King\_Solomon\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@King\_Solomon\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/King_Solomon_Hill)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/58 "2010-10-26T23:17:16Z")
My dad was brought up and lived all his life in Lancashire in the north west of England and he always calls a torch a flash light. Come to think of it I’ve also heard my uncles on my mothers side use the same term. This could be a linguistic anomaly, but certainly in my family it’s not unusual. As for pants, again where I come from, pants == trousers. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/59 "2010-10-27T01:27:06Z")
The only time I’ve ever heard condoms referred to as rubbers is in jokes about a Brit accidentally using the term, intending to mean “eraser”. It may have been common decades ago, but if so, it was before my time. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/60 "2010-10-27T08:23:42Z")
In northern english (UK) dialects it’s very common for “pants” to mean “trousers”. Lancashire in particular, but also areas of Yorkshire and the north-east. It’s less common amoung younger people, but for over 50s you’ll very often hear it used this way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096.md?page=4)