# British Dopers: re Torches **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 23, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096 "2010-10-23T13:29:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/61 "2010-10-28T03:31:50Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > Yes, I initially mentioned “knocking up” because it always seems to come up in these discussions, and yet I don’t think I (a Brit) have ever heard anyone use it that way. The “getting pregnant” sense, yes I’ve heard that (usually worded something like “he knocked her up”). Yeah. You’d say ‘I’ll knock for you,’ not ‘I’ll knock you up,’ but I know that I’ve heard this term used by British characters in American TV programmes, for the intention of creating a cultural misunderstanding. Pants does mean underwear, but it’s only fairly recently that it started to be used (sometimes) for women’s underwear as well as men’s. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/62 "2010-10-28T03:51:46Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I’ve always been puzzled by the word “flashlight”, actually, because in typical usage what you do with that device is provide continuous illumination rather than brief flashes. Early flashlights ran on carbon-zinc batteries that could not provide a continuous stream of power. In addition, they also had inefficient carbon filament bulbs, so they required periodic “rest” to keep functioning. This “resting” occured at intervals, so they could only be used in brief flashes. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/63 "2010-10-28T16:49:42Z")
Another Brit here who has never in his life heard anyone North or South call trousers pants, it may be possible but I’ve never heard it personally. As to Torch, this is also the implement used by a gas welder, and of course if you torch something you’re setting it on fire. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/64 "2010-10-28T17:07:08Z")
Hereabouts rubber means eraser and sometimes condom, although usually it’s a rubber johnny, or sometimes a johnny. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/65 "2010-10-28T20:31:51Z")
Across the British Isles, is the word “knickers” _generally_ a perfect homonym for “pants”, or is there a connotative difference? For instance, in American English, “panties” would refer exclusively to girls’ or women’s underwear. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/66 "2010-10-28T20:55:38Z")
> [@](#): > > As to Torch, this is also the implement used by a gas welder, and of course if you torch something you’re setting it on fire. Those usages are the same in America (possibly modified as “welder’s torch”, or “oxyacetylene torch”, or the like, but just “torch” is fine in context). ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/67 "2010-10-28T21:23:24Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Yeah. You’d say ‘I’ll knock for you,’ not ‘I’ll knock you up,’ but I know that I’ve heard this term used by British characters in American TV programmes, for the intention of creating a cultural misunderstanding. I’m a little older than you and from a different part of the country; have both heard and said, “I’ll knock you up in the morning” or “knock us up in the morning”. Even back in the day, it could get a “wahey” or “mucky bugger” in response. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/68 "2010-10-28T21:26:42Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Across the British Isles, is the word “knickers” _generally_ a perfect homonym for “pants”, or is there a connotative difference? For instance, in American English, “panties” would refer exclusively to girls’ or women’s underwear. knickers - female undergarments - frilly feminine ones, although used to be old three-quarter-length mens trousers. pants - mens undergarments, ladies everyday multi-washed comfort pants panties - little girls undergarments, increasingly just any womans undertrolleys. Just a female item. I dunno, it isn’t universal I think ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/69 "2010-10-28T22:25:59Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Just to add to the confusion. When the rest of us Germanic speakers (at least Germans and Scandinavians) say “half two” (or rather the equivalent thereof) we mean “half an hour **before** two”. 😛 I don’t know about the Germans or the rest of the Nordic region, but here in Sweden “7:35” is supposed to be said as “fem över halv åtta”, which basically means “five minutes past half an hour too eight”. Which is just messed up. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/70 "2010-10-29T07:44:09Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > I’m a little older than you and from a different part of the country; have both heard and said, “I’ll knock you up in the morning” or “knock us up in the morning”. > > Even back in the day, it could get a “wahey” or “mucky bugger” in response. In some industrial towns there were even professional [“knocker uppers”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knocker-up) who would go round the streets banging on people’s bedroom windows to wake them up, so they would not be late for work. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/71 "2010-10-29T07:55:33Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > There wouldn’t be any potential ambiguity in the United States, because we call them “jigsaw puzzles.” A jigsaw is just a saw that can be used to make a jigsaw puzzle. Yeah - the joke works best in British English, because in fact what we commonly call a jigsaw is in America called a scrollsaw - hand-portable reciprocating saw. (A table-mounted reciprocating saw may also be a jig saw, but hardly anyone uses them.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/72 "2010-10-29T08:01:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > then of course there are the different pronunciations of the same words… “You say, uh, “erb,” we say “herb.” _Because there’s a fucking ‘H’ in it!_” Honour Honest Heir Hour ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/73 "2010-10-29T11:20:51Z")
I posted the above in a bit of a hurry and I now see it could be read as being a bit snarky, which was not my intention. Sorry about that. I think it’s pretty much a rule, however, that any English-speaker pointing out inconsistencies in other dialects of English will certainly have overlooked very similar inconsistencies in their own\* The same does not necessarily hold true for other languages, such as Spanish, where the rules of pronunciation vs spelling are more clearly defined, or closely adhered-to. \*(If that’s not already a rule defined somewhere else, I’m claiming it as _Mangetout’s Rule_) ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/74 "2010-10-29T11:43:22Z")
In my experience, ‘pants’ is often used to refer to jeans or trousers in the UK by young people, and it’s occasionally a slip of the tongue and an obvious Americanism. I grew up watching movies like Back to the Future, and distinctly remember Chritopher Lloyd saying “Pull out your pant’s pockets!” which sounded hilarious to me at the time. Stuff like that forces the word into our common vocabulary. Sometimes a British person will say ‘flashlight’ too. English is welcoming to all new words. As far as pronunciation goes: You have to think about connected speech. You add lots of sounds in between words that aren’t in the spelling of the word, or sounded when you say the word in isolation. Not all British people will pronounce ‘herb’ the same, and neither will Americans. Maybe we should do Labov’s ‘fourth floor’ experiment here. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/75 "2010-10-29T11:48:55Z")
Another confusion is the word “vest”, which in the US refers to what we in the UK would call a “waistcoat”. To us a vest is an item of underwear worn under a shirt. The Nat King Cole song “Walking My Baby Back Home” contains the line “her powder all over my vest”. I used to wonder what the guy was doing with his shirt off! ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/76 "2010-10-29T12:23:26Z")
> [@Rayne\_Man](#): > > Another confusion is the word “vest”, which in the US refers to what we in the UK would call a “waistcoat”. To us a vest is an item of underwear worn under a shirt. The Nat King Cole song “Walking My Baby Back Home” contains the line “her powder all over my vest”. I used to wonder what the guy was doing with his shirt off! Which then begs the question, what does an American call the item of underwear? Is that also a vest? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/77 "2010-10-29T13:07:12Z")
Undershirt, whether with sleeves or sleeveless In American English, the essential qualities of a vest are sleevelessness and being worn over a shirt (but under a jacket) ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/78 "2010-10-29T13:17:53Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Which then begs the question, what does an American call the item of underwear? Is that also a vest? Quite a few terms, depending on the shape: [ul] [li]if it has sleeves, it’s called a T-shirt or undershirt. The former is also used for uncollared shirts with artwork or text on them, worn as outer shirts.[/li][li]if it has no sleeves, but it looks like it had had sleeves, it’s called a sleeveless T. This of course makes no sense, because without sleeves, it’s not T-shaped at all.[/li][li]if it has narrow straps at the shoulders, it’s also an undershirt, or sometimes an A-shirt. A slang name is “wife beater”, because of the stereotypical image of lower-class slobs who wear them as a main shirt and are assumed to be spousal abusers.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/79 "2010-10-29T13:24:34Z")
Interesting, cheers guys. To be honest, people wear T-shirts under shirts in the UK and still call them T-shirts. That’s because they are T-shirts that you could happily wear with nothing over them outside of the home. A vest is a more specific form of light undergarment. Usually sleeveless, I’d guess, but probably closer to what AWB described as an A-Shirt. Amusing about wife beater. Wife beater in the UK comes in pints or cans - it is the slang for Stella Artois lager. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2010, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096/80 "2010-10-29T13:58:47Z")
Just yesterday at a group lunch at work (I’m in the US), a Dutch woman told the story of confusion around the word torch. She and her sister were preparing to go camping with a group of British people. They were told that they should bring along a torch, so they went out and bought the flaming torch variety. Since they still had to fly to England, they had the big torch sticking out of their backpack on the plane flight over. They were quite embarrassed when they found out they were supposed to get a flashlight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-re-torches/558096.md?page=5)