# British Dopers: Tell Me More About Christmas Pantos **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836 "2023-11-08T16:53:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/21 "2023-11-10T14:23:10Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > _ **don’t want to blow my own trumpet… that’s a lie, I can’t think of anything nicer. Think of the trouble it would save!’** _ > > Julian Clary in Jack and the Beanstalk, Palladium Theatre Julian Clary is one of the contestants on the current season of _Taskmaster_, the first time I’ve ever seen him. I can hear just him saying this, in his quietly snarky way. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/22 "2023-11-10T15:04:50Z")
I wonder if I’m the only one here who never heard of a xmas panto prior to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/23 "2023-11-10T15:13:54Z")
I’m sad that none of the clips I’ve found have had a horse. Growing up as an anglophile from the colonies, there have always been references to a Pantomime Horse. Every comedy troupe, from Monty Python to John Finnemore (Souvenir Programme and Cabin Pressure) would have jokes. Even soap operas like the Archers or P. G. Woodhouse books would have a scene at the local fête with a panto. And Craig Ferguson had a recurring character: “Look who’s here! It’s the Pantomime Horse!” Dancing and silliness would ensue. Please tell me there are still horses… eta: Well, there are in silly British videos! [“PANTOMIME HORSE of the Year Show”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcSkzAijaiI) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/24 "2023-11-10T22:49:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I wonder if I’m the only one here who never heard of a xmas panto prior to this thread I never heard of it, either! ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/25 "2023-11-11T04:33:45Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > No matter which panto you put on, there are always consistent main characters - the old lady, played by a man in drag, the principal boy/love interest of the girl, which is always a woman dressed in male drag. Then there’s the evil character, and the principal girl’s comic best friend. > > Loads of in jokes and sequences with the audience joining in ‘He’s behind you’ ‘Oh no he’s not’ etc. > There’s always a song which the audience joins in with - often there’ll be a screen showing the lyrics for everyone to follow. > They will throw sweets into the audience. > At some point, kids from the audience will be pulled onto the stage. All of the above plus the slapstick scene (often set in a kitchen.) 😃 A couple of minor characters will move the plot along slightly by chatting (“I do hope Cinderella goes to the Prince’s Ball”) but spend the rest of the time getting flour all over each other. Personally I have enjoyed panto through the ages (as a child / teenager / adult / uncle / retired!) What other production allows you to shout occasionally. 🕶 ‘Oh no you haven’t!’ ‘Oh yes I have!!’ ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/26 "2023-11-11T05:12:42Z")
Interesting how many of these Christmas-panto elements turn up in Monty Python’s _Life of Brian_: - Hero’s mother played by a man in drag - “That wasn’t a minute!” “Oh, yes it was!” “Oh, no it wasn’t!” - Big “sing-along” musical number, complete with some fourth-wall breaking (“Incidentally, this record’s available in the foyer…”) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/27 "2023-11-11T07:54:02Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I saw Sir Ian McCellan dressed in drag as Widow Twanky in London some years ago. A huge success, so much so that he did it again the following year and more recently did Dame again in Mother Goose: https://www.tiktok.com/embed/v2/7170046904347200773 Dame, by the way, isn’t a RuPaul/ Priscilla style glamorous drag queen - it’s a grotesque walking mother-in-law joke (these from the Great Lockdown): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/sE_vWb1PUoU/maxresdefault.jpg "National Theatre: How To Be A Pantomime Dame! - Great British Panto Party") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE_vWb1PUoU) And as for the panto horse, well, depending on the story, it could be a cow (Jack and the Beanstalk), a cat (Dick Whittington), or a goose (Mother Goose). Or you could invent your own, I suppose [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/snMJYVY0fZk/maxresdefault.jpg "Panto Cow") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snMJYVY0fZk) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/28 "2023-11-11T08:36:14Z")
Pantomime is a vestige of the British music hall tradition which otherwise died out by the middle of the 20th century. When I was young in the 70s and 80s there was a legendary generation of Scottish panto dames which included people like Jimmy Logan and Jackie Milroy who had started their careers in music hall. Rikki Fulton was one of the other legends and Stanley Baxter is the only one of that generation who is still alive. When I was about 8 I saw Jimmy Logan playing the dame; he didn’t come on until the second or third scene and when he did he entered at the back of the stage with some sort of gradual reveal. He had a giant 18th century style wig on which included a working flashing blue police car light which itself was about the size of his head (it was the kind with the revolving mechanism inside). At the time I had no idea that “making an entrance” on stage was a thing, but even so I still thought that I might never anything as awesome again. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/29 "2023-11-11T08:43:52Z")
Another time I saw Rikki Fulton and Jackie Milroy playing the Ugly Sisters. They did a routine involving cheesy jokes like “Is yer maw in son?,” “Naw, she’s at Arbroath,” “I’ll just wait until she’s finished then” etc. I later found out that this was reviving their TV work from the 60s, but they still had 1500 people including me actually helpless with laughter. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/30 "2023-11-11T13:37:23Z")
The corniness/cheesiness of the jokes is sort of the point, like family jokes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/31 "2023-11-11T16:03:11Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The corniness/cheesiness of the jokes is sort of the point Oh no it isn’t ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/32 "2023-11-11T16:30:41Z")
I saw all these Scottish comedians too, back in the 60s & 70s. I’m sure you’ll remember Parliamo Glasgow, in which the big comedian star (Stanley Baxter) would stop the show and give the audience a long lesson in how to speak Glaswegian! Even Edinburgh audiences loved it! And in the larger, more lavish productions, at the grand wedding finale, or Cinderella going to the ball, you might get a little silver coach with the glammed-up female lead in a huge gown, pulled on to the stage by several shetland ponies! Huge round of applause and oohs and aahs from the children! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/33 "2023-11-11T18:05:23Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > I’m sure you’ll remember Parliamo Glasgow, in which the big comedian star (Stanley Baxter) would stop the show and give the audience a long lesson in how to speak Glaswegian! Yirnaewrangtherr! ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/34 "2023-11-12T13:00:09Z")
It was a skit on the worthy language lessons the BBC used to run on TV, and featured in his TV series (not the only time panto has included material referring to or borrowed from popular TV shows - another tip for anyone trying to write a home-grown panto): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/T_Lk7qivXbw/hqdefault.jpg "Stanley Baxter - Parliamo Glasgow - Mia Farra's farra, the marra & the barra") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Lk7qivXbw) ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/35 "2023-11-23T02:00:08Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The corniness/cheesiness of the jokes is sort of the point, like family jokes. > [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > Oh no it isn’t (All together new) **Oh yes it is!** ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/36 "2023-11-29T18:47:20Z")
Apparently there is a genuine attempt to reproduce British panto here in San Francisco. They sold out last year (I didn’t happen to hear about it) and I just heard an announcement on the classical radio station for this year. I wish someone would go, and report on it (not me, I cannot be in crowds that include so many children). I guess the perpetual Nutcrackers and Velveteen Rabbits are not enough holiday entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/37 "2023-11-29T18:57:34Z")
Found a link: [Big Night Out: Panto in the Presidio - Classical KDFC](https://www.kdfc.com/culture/community/big-night-out-panto-in-the-presidio/) ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/38 "2023-12-05T14:14:45Z")
Behind the scenes at a panto warehouse: > **[‘What do we clean the costumes with? Vodka!’ Inside Britain’s panto powerhouse](https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/dec/04/vodka-britains-panto-powerhouse-evolution-glitter)** > > With 10 shows on and 1m tickets sold, Evolution are panto gods. But how do you work a giant? What will 50kg of glitter cover? And why did a bench almost cause a riot? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2023, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/39 "2023-12-05T14:25:56Z")
Great article, thank you. Interesting to see that McKellen sparked a revival. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836/40 "2023-12-06T15:26:12Z")
Of course, it’s not just a one-off or a couple of performances - it’s for a month or six weeks, five or six nights a week and matinees twice a week. Quite a challenge to keep it up that long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-dopers-tell-me-more-about-christmas-pantos/992836.md?page=3)