# British English - no apostrophes in possessive business names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2003, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481 "2003-08-25T09:23:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/41 "2011-04-06T20:46:23Z")
_Breakfast at Tiffany’s_. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/42 "2011-04-06T21:32:24Z")
> [@Charley](#): > > Zombie bicycles apparently. My inner pedant just won’t let this go, I’m afraid, 8-year old thread or no. > > This assertion just isn’t true, I’m sorry. I don’t know of anyone in the UK (although in the interests of science I’m prepared to accept there may be some) who pronounces it HAR-FORDS. It’s pronounced HAL-FORDS, just as you claim it ought to be. In fact I can honestly say that until just now it had never occurred to me that the name contains the word ‘half’. I’m not sure where your idea came from, but it’s not true at all. Another Brit that has only ever heard it pronounced “Hal-Fords”. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/43 "2011-04-06T22:03:02Z")
Toys ‘r’ Us, except the r in the logo is backward. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/44 "2011-04-07T01:10:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Toys ‘r’ Us, except the r in the logo is backward. In Soviet Russia, You [Ya](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya_(Cyrillic)) Toys. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/45 "2011-04-07T01:32:10Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Toys ‘r’ Us, except the r in the logo is backward. While those are apostrophes, they are pretty clearly not serving a possessive function. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/46 "2011-04-07T01:47:31Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > For awhile JC Penny was advertising itself as Pennys and some stores even had [Pennys](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/3274697435_dd026f0546.jpg) signs According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JC_Penney), James Cash Penney opened “The JCP Store” in 1902 (he previously had stores called “The Golden Rule”). Then in 1913, he incorporated as “J. C. Penney Company”. The “Penneys” logo you linked to was used from 1963 to 1971, but everywhere else I can find in print uses “Penney’s”, except there’s no reference to the name actually being changed to “Penney’s” or “Penneys” except that the first line of the article says “J. C. Penney Company, Inc. (formerly Penney’s)…” I’m guessing there’s some missing info there. Looking at their [corporate website](http://www.jcpenney.net/default.aspx), it seems they’re now referring to the company as “jcpenney”. I still don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone call it anything other than J.C. Penney’s. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/47 "2011-04-07T01:54:16Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Toys ‘r’ Us, except the r in the logo is backward. Toys ‘Я’ Us ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/48 "2011-04-07T02:24:32Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > I had heard that it was a question of not looking too “English” when they started opening outlets in Québec. According to the [Wikipedia entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hortons), the change was made in 1993 to conform to Québec laws concerning languages on signs. Yes, and Eaton’s was another company that had to knuckle under to the Quebec law forbidding English on outdoor signs. The apostrophe possessive makes a word English, no apostrophe and it’s just a name. Significantly, the Quebec government decided not to pursue the matter with McDonald’s, who had the pockets to fight it and really did not care, since they were not an “English Canada” company and would probably be happy to defend a trademark in world-wide use. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/49 "2011-04-07T02:43:47Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Oh, and I just remembered something – I have noticed that Britons tend to add an “s” to the name of any business, whether or not it is actually part of the name. I have a friend who works for the London office of the Chicago-based law firm Sidley Austin Brown & Wood. Here in the U.S., we just abbreviate the name as “Sidley”; however, my English friend always refers to it as “Sidleys.” For some reason this is popular for employees who work at Ford (I run into a lot of them). Where do you work? “Fords” or “Ford’s” or “Fords’” (I’m not really sure how they mean it). I’m told that it goes back to when it was really a true family enterprise, as in, “I work for the Fords” or “I work at the Fords’.” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/50 "2011-04-07T12:51:54Z")
> [@NoGoodNamesLeft](#): > > Here in Canada “Tim Hortons” refuses to use the possessive apostrophe as well. I remember reading it was a decision by the graphic design people simply because the logo “looked better” without it. It may have been at least in part because an apostrophe would have been illegal in Quebec and they could (and would) have been subject to increasing fines had they persisted. So in order to have one name throughout the country (it is bigger than McDonald’s here) they probably just dropped it. When the law banning signs in English (or any language but French) was passed, our paper had a cartoon showing a guy on a ladder dropping an apostrophe from the name “Ed’s” on to the language inspector’s very pointy head. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481/51 "2011-04-07T15:58:37Z")
I’m surprised that even though the OP is from Western New York, he didn’t mention an extremely prominent US example of this phenomenon: Wegmans, the grocery store chain founded by Robert Wegman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-no-apostrophes-in-possessive-business-names/197481.md?page=2)