# British English pronunciation of foreign vowels **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828 "2006-02-16T17:21:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/1 "2006-02-16T17:21:43Z")
I’ve noticed what seems to me an odd thing about the way some British English-speakers pronounce some foreign-derived words. In particular, I’m thinking of a short A sound, of which I can only think of two examples right now: [ol] [li]Anthony Hopkins in _The Silence of the Lambs_, during his famous description of a meal involving fava beans and a nice CHIANTI, and,[/li][li]The announcer on _Dancing with the Stars_ (work with me here) when he announced that a couple would be dancing the SAMBA.[/li][/ol] In both cases of the highlighted words (chianti and samba), the speakers pronounced the short “A” sound very flat, in the way that most Americans would pronounce the word, “can.” This strikes me as very odd, given that most British pronunciations seem to have “rounder” vowel sounds than American pronunciations of the same word. Forgive the imprecise terminology - I’m not a linguist. I’m sure this is not something universal among the British, and I can’t say with what frequency it occurs. I almost certainly _don’t_ take note of how these words are pronounced when they are spoken like I, and American, would (kee-AHN-tee and SAHM-buh), and it’s the exceptions that stick in my mind. Is there a reason for this? Is it a subconscious attempt to differentiate foreign-derived words from more native English words? Is it more common among English-speakers from specific regions, or is it maybe a class distinction? I know there are some Doper linguists around, I figured someone has some theories. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/2 "2006-02-16T17:44:05Z")
I think this may be one for IMHO, but it seems to me it’s a class thing. My mother, who I suspect would like to be posher than she is, says “AWN-velope”, which is a reasonably common “pseudo-French” pronunciation. I think it has fallen out of favour somewhat in recent times. So, chalk it down to “wanting to sound cultured”, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/3 "2006-02-16T17:55:30Z")
OTOH the way Americans pronounce those words sounds wrong to me. Like they’re thinking “ooh, foreign word, better draw out every ‘a’ just in case”. I’ve heard film stars talking about the “Kahn” Film Festival (or even worse, “Kahns”) :rolleyes: The correct pronunciation is probably somewhere between the American and the British. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/4 "2006-02-16T17:58:08Z")
It’s a little difficult to generalise, since there a many different British (or for that matter English) accents, each of which pronounces vowels differently. Your Anthony Hopkins example complicates things a little too, since he’s actually affecting an American accent at the time – I’d guess that anything odd about it is most likely down to him not quite nailing it. I would say though, that my experience is that most British people make very little effort to pronounce common words of foreign origin in anything like an authentic manner – they’re treated just like any other English word, and the vowels sounds tend to be the normal vowel sounds of the speaker’s accent. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/5 "2006-02-16T18:03:08Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > I’m sure this is not something universal among the British, and I can’t say with what frequency it occurs. I think it is pretty common. Anthony Hopkins is Welsh. I am from Yorkshire. I use the short, hard “a” sound in those words too. I also use it in “pasta” and “taco”, which has been commented on by Americans. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/6 "2006-02-16T18:05:07Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > I would say though, that my experience is that most British people make very little effort to pronounce common words of foreign origin in anything like an authentic manner – they’re treated just like any other English word, and the vowels sounds tend to be the normal vowel sounds of the speaker’s accent. If you think the British are bad, listen to the American pronunciation of Des Moines and Des Plaines. And Piedmont. And Beaufort. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/7 "2006-02-16T18:17:22Z")
My English friend says past like pahhst but pasta like past-a (past like an American would say it). Odd that it’s neither like the Italian pronunciation nor the usual British sound for the short a. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/8 "2006-02-16T18:21:42Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > If you think the British are bad, listen to the American pronunciation of Des Moines and Des Plaines. And Piedmont. And Beaufort. As in Byoo-fert, South Carolina? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/9 "2006-02-16T18:22:37Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > If you think the British are bad, listen to the American pronunciation of Des Moines and Des Plaines. And Piedmont. And Beaufort. Detroit hors d’oeuvre ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/10 "2006-02-16T18:23:02Z")
I’m fairly certain Lecter was making fun of a white trash American example in that example. The rest I can’t speak to. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/11 "2006-02-16T18:25:51Z")
That should be white trash American _accent_ in that example. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/12 "2006-02-16T18:39:11Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > If you think the British are bad, listen to the American pronunciation of Des Moines and Des Plaines. And Piedmont. And Beaufort. It wasn’t intended as a criticism – once a foreign word enters the language, it by definition stops being foreign and eventually loses any trace of its orginal pronunciation. When this happens varies from word to word, and some dialects will retain the influence of the original pronunciation longer than others, but I don’t see it as a problem. > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > My English friend says past like pahhst but pasta like past-a (past like an American would say it). Odd that it’s neither like the Italian pronunciation nor the usual British sound for the short a. Not _his_ usual short-a sound, perhaps (though how does it compare with the short a sound when he says “hat”?), but as I said earlier, there is a _lot_ of variation of vowel sounds here – “past” and “pasta” have identical “a” sounds for me, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/13 "2006-02-16T18:53:12Z")
I’ve also heard the British pronounce “Tenerife” something like “tener-reef”, which is even worse than an American saying it like “ten-uh-reef-ay”, because at least the American didn’t drop the final vowel. The most confusing example was when I heart a Briton say agave like “uh-gave”. That’s not to say that either the British OR Americans are pronouncing both words correctly either (and with Botanical Latin, there isn’t a single, solitary pronunciation, although there are general guidelines). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/14 "2006-02-16T19:19:58Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > I’ve also heard the British pronounce “Tenerife” something like “tener-reef”, which is even worse than an American saying it like “ten-uh-reef-ay”, because at least the American didn’t drop the final vowel. Don’t the Malagasy themselves drop the initial and final syllables in the word “Antanarivo,” making “Tennereef” a not-too-bad approximation? ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/15 "2006-02-16T20:49:27Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Don’t the Malagasy themselves drop the initial and final syllables in the word “Antanarivo,” making “Tennereef” a not-too-bad approximation? I must confess, I’ve never heard it pronounced any other way _except_ “tennereef.” How should it be pronounced? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/16 "2006-02-16T21:06:51Z")
> [@Daithi Lacha](#): > > I must confess, I’ve never heard it pronounced any other way _except_ “tennereef.” How should it be pronounced? It seemed to me that Doobieous was suggesting that the final E constitutes a separate, pronounced syllable. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/17 "2006-02-16T21:29:19Z")
It appears that ‘Tenerife’ has an anglicised name, to match Ibiza, Mallorca, Barcelona, Seville, the Canaries, and just about anywhere else the plebs might ever go 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/18 "2006-02-16T22:30:17Z")
I’ve heard some older English people say plaah-stic for plastic, and from time to time you hear people referring to ‘Saawlsuh’ dancing (Salsa). An English friend who knows Spanish once went into an off-licence in London and asked for a bottle of Cava, pronouncing Cava the Spanish way, and was ‘corrected’ by the chinless wonder behind the counter - “It’s Caahr-va, actually”. Err, no. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/19 "2006-02-16T22:46:59Z")
Anthony Hopkins’s accent as Lecter was what I would deem “a mess”. It was a sort of anglicised vaguely American accent, but as has been noted he’s Welsh anyway and had a distinct South Wales accent the last time I engaged him in conversation. ::clank:: Sorry, I’ll just pick up that name there. For such a phonetic language, we Brits are terrible at pronouncing it. My missus speaks Italian and got corrected in an “Italian” restaurant recently for saying bruscheta properly - bruss-KET-ah - “you mean broo-SHETTuh?”. To me, sahmba and pahsta sound wrong, though I know they’re not, but then we say “parmesan” instead of “parmigiano” as well. But anyway, “British English”, for all that it’s commonly used on the other side of the pond, is woefully inadequate term on which to ask questions about accents over here. We’ve got hundreds, and they vary incredibly. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828/20 "2006-02-16T22:52:49Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > My missus speaks Italian and got corrected in an “Italian” restaurant recently for saying bruscheta properly - bruss-KET-ah - “you mean broo-SHETTuh?” Gahhh, I hate this one. I once got ‘corrected’ on it less than 12 hours after stepping off a plane from Turin, and less than 24 hours after having eaten proper bruss-KET-ah. Almost as good as when my Italian cousin started speaking in Italian in an Italian restaurant, whereupon the staff sheepishly admitted that they were Egyptian. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-pronunciation-of-foreign-vowels/344828.md?page=2)