# British English Question: 'family' as collective noun **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 26, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-question-family-as-collective-noun/555069 "2010-09-26T03:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-question-family-as-collective-noun/555069/21 "2010-09-27T23:03:16Z")
I think there are really only a few examples where British and US English differ in their treatment of collective nouns, and even then both uses are flexible. Brits would equally say ‘the BBC are’ or ‘the BBC is.’ Would Americans say ‘Fox are’ as readily as ‘Fox’? I’m sure I’ve heard that. > [@Blake](#): > > > [@Damfino](#): > > > > Classic example: > > > > “The Giants is dead” : American. > > Unless you are referring to a singular entity known as “The Giants”, for example a movie with that title, then this is just plain wrong in American English. For a collective entity known as “The Giants”, eg a sports team, the only correct usage in either British or American is “are dead”. “Giants” is already pluralised, and must be treated as such in any form of English. > > "The giants is dead’ is universally wrong if “giants” is a collective noun. > > > [@Damfino](#): > > > > “The Police are pursuing enquiries” : British > > Are you suggesting that anybody in the US would ever say “The police is pursuing inquiries”. In my experience nobody in the English speaking world would ever say such a thing. > > The reason being that “police” in this sentence isn’t a collective noun at all, it’s just a plural. That’s why the sentence refers to “their inquiries”, not “its inquiries”. Police is noun where the singular and plural have the same form. Ask yourself, have you ever heard anyone refer to “the polices”? There is no such word, the plural of police is police. “There are two police waiting for you” is correct, “There are two polices waiting for you” is never correct. > > Since the word “police” in your example is already plural it must always be used with “are”. In contrast, you will often hear the word “families”, because the plural of “family” is not “family”. As such “family” may be used with “are” or “is” depending on context. > > Now if “police” were being used here as a collective noun, than US English would indeed be “is”, but then so would British English.: > > “The police officers are pursuing their inquiries” " > The police force is pursuing its inquiries". The term you want is uncountable noun: police is an uncountable noun. That’s not the same thing as a collective noun or a word that’s the same in the singular and plural. There are situations where you could say polices (plural, not verb), as in ‘the different polices of the world,’ though admittedly police forces would be more elegant. That’s a common feature of uncountable nouns. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-question-family-as-collective-noun/555069/22 "2010-09-27T23:32:54Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Ask yourself, have you ever heard anyone refer to “the polices”? There is no such word, the plural of police is police. “There are two police waiting for you” is correct, “There are two polices waiting for you” is never correct. It is not correct to say that the plural of “police” is “police”. Rather, “police” is a plural word that has no singular. You can’t say “there is a police waiting for you”, except in some dialects. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-question-family-as-collective-noun/555069/23 "2010-09-29T00:40:11Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > You can get away with all sorts of things in poetry, including mixing “is” and “are” for the same subject, which nobody considers correct. Ever. That;s because the mind expects shorthand forms of expression and odd constructions. That’s what makes poetry enjoyable. Cat Stevens does this: “'Cause there’s a million things to be, you know that there are” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-english-question-family-as-collective-noun/555069.md?page=1)