# British House of Commons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 22, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513 "2003-12-22T20:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SeekingTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@SeekingTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekingTruth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/1 "2003-12-22T20:20:47Z")
What is the MP in the HoC? Is it akin to US HoReps’ leaders or whips? ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/2 "2003-12-22T20:33:21Z")
?? MP stands for Member of Parliament, and everyone in the House of Commons is an MP. ---
**Author:** ![SeekingTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@SeekingTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeekingTruth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/3 "2003-12-22T20:36:33Z")
I see. It’s used sporadically in written articles, so wasn’t sure, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/4 "2003-12-22T20:39:50Z")
M.P. means ‘Member of Parliament’. So _every_\* person elected is an M.P. It’d be similar to “Member of the House” or “Representative” in the USA. (“Congressman” or “Congresswoman” is often used, also. It’s slightly more inclusive, since it includes both Senators & Representatives.) \*I’m not sure if this applies to the Irish who are elected but not allowed to serve in Parliament. They were elected to Parliament, but not actually sworn in as Members of Parliament, so maybe they don’t get the MP title. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/5 "2003-12-22T20:49:06Z")
**[t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net)**, could you explain what exactly you mean that Irish people are elected but not allowed to serve in Parliament. And perhaps provide a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/6 "2003-12-22T21:29:04Z")
You cannot sit in the house, despite having been elected, if you refuse to take the oath of allegiance (to the queen), although I’ve a feeling there was some recent discussion on this matter and don’t know if the situation has changed. This amounts to a _de facto_ exclusion of republican members from Northern Ireland from taking their seats for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/7 "2003-12-22T21:37:06Z")
Saying that the Irish are “not allowed” to serve in Parliament is disingenuous if the reason is that they **refuse** to take the oath that is required for the job. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/8 "2003-12-22T23:28:59Z")
If I was elected to Parliament (ha), I’d be disgusted at the prospect of declaring an oath to an unelected, religion-bound figurehead. If I refused to take that oath, would I also _not_ be “not allowed” in Parliament, Cerowyn? ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/9 "2003-12-23T00:18:51Z")
Yep. If you want to effect change then you have to do it from within and rightly so. Otherwise I could disagree with this whole property owning malarky etc… Note that it’s not a case of you not being allowed in. If you like, it’s part and parcel of the “contract” between MPs and the State and the terms are known in advance. Others who don’t believe take the oath, although under protest. [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3006175.stm). ---
**Author:** ![Herge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Herge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Herge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/10 "2003-12-23T00:23:56Z")
Seeing as this thread is on the subject, can anyone tell me why lots of MPs stand up then sit down again when someone is about to speak? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/11 "2003-12-23T00:29:23Z")
If I recall correctly, it’s to get the attention of the Speaker. If you notice carefully, they start to rise before the Speaker calls out a name. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/12 "2003-12-23T00:37:32Z")
They are trying to catch [this person’s eye](http://www.parliament.uk/works/speaker.cfm) If they succeed, then they can ask a question of their own. Very quaint and needs bringing into the 21st century. V ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/13 "2003-12-23T07:47:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GorillaMan \* > \*\*If I was elected to Parliament (ha), I’d be disgusted at the prospect of declaring an oath to an unelected, religion-bound figurehead. If I refused to take that oath, would I also _not_ be “not allowed” in Parliament, Cerowyn? \*\* As in “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”? A flag being quite literally a figurehead, and “religion-bound”… well that’s somewhat arguable. Not that it says anywhere in the US Constitution that a congressman would have to recite the pledge to be allowed to take office… Look, it isn’t HM the Q’s fault that her coronation vows require her to protect the Church of England. It isn’t as if she wrote them. Besides, would you rather declare oath to an unelected, religion-bound leader who wielded actual power? ---
**Author:** ![chiefgnome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@chiefgnome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiefgnome)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/14 "2003-12-23T11:55:24Z")
All other atheist or republican MPs manage to take the oath without any problems. Tony Benn would do so “under protest” and some, notably Tony Banks, do so crossing their fingers. The issue with Sinn Fein MPs is not opposition to the monarchy (although obviously they are opposed to the monarchy) but to the British state. The oath is one of alliegence to the Queen _as the British head of state_. Sinn Fein MPs will not swear allegiance to someone they view as a foreign head of state. To answer t-bonham’s query though, Sinn Fein MPs are still entitled to call themselves Members of Parliament and still use the letters MP after their names. The rule has also been altered slightly to allow them offices within Parliament and office allowances to run them with (although as far as I am aware, without taking the oath they still do not get paid salaries) (As a side point, it hasn’t always been a bar to Republican MPs from Northern Ireland. When Sinn Fein began fighting Westminster elections in the early 1980s they resolved not to actually sit on British legislatures. However previous Republican MPs - “Republican Clubs” or “Unity” candidates were the normal labels - did take their seats in the Commons.) ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/15 "2003-12-23T12:34:28Z")
Don’t sometimes members of the party of the guy who’s speaking stand up for a sec to indicate that they agree with what he just said? ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/16 "2003-12-23T14:03:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > \*\*Don’t sometimes members of the party of the guy who’s speaking stand up for a sec to indicate that they agree with what he just said? \*\* In a word, no. Agreement is signalled by a rousing ‘Hear, hear!’, which often sounds more like ‘Hwah, hwah!’ or ‘Bwaa, bwaa!’, depending on how much port is circulating in the bloodstream. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/17 "2003-12-23T15:11:01Z")
I wonder if any US Congressperson would be allowed to take their place if their political views were such that they opposed the states possession of, say, Hawaii, and they refused to take a pledge of allegience ? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/18 "2003-12-23T16:07:39Z")
> [@](#): > > and they refused to take a pledge of allegience Are members of Congress _required_ to recite the pledge of allegiance? They do have an oath of office, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/19 "2003-12-29T07:24:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cerowyn \* > \*\*Saying that the Irish are “not allowed” to serve in Parliament is disingenuous if the reason is that they **refuse** to take the oath that is required for the job. \*\* Well, I’d say it was _disingenous_ to have delibrately created an oath that you know certain members would be unwilling to take. And then to make taking that oath a “requirement” of the job. (Because I see nothing in the actual job of M.P. that “requires” such an oath, and they got along fine without one for hundreds of years.) So making it “required for the job” seems like nothing more than an underhanded way of excluding people that the voters elected. Here in the USA, we used to have lots of voting “requirements”, like so-called literacy tests, poll taxes, etc. in southern states. But the real purpose of all of them was nothing more than keeping black people from voting. ---
**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513/20 "2003-12-29T09:18:02Z")
Not really. As has been said, they can swear the oath whilst not-so-surreptitiously crossing their fingers. Also, you say that the oath was brought in relatively recently. Unless you have a cite for that, I’d assume the oath would have been there in some form since Parliament was first summoned by the monarch. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-house-of-commons/220513.md?page=2)