# British monarchy - Elizabeth 2nd or 1st? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2000, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349 "2000-05-02T11:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DavidIII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@DavidIII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidIII)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/41 "2012-03-23T22:37:48Z")
Treaty of Union [http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/union.html](http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/union.html) Note that the United Kingdom of Great Britain is an entity. Northern Ireland was bolted on in the 20th Century. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/42 "2012-03-23T22:59:29Z")
**DavidIII** , thanks for your interesting input. But since you joined a conversation that’s been inactive for over 11 years, it may not draw much discussion now. But then again it may. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/43 "2012-03-23T23:07:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > If the appropriate appellation should have been QE I of GB, then, if there was not a _general_ English domination, I would have thought that all those fierce Scots would have insisted on it in 1953. > > If you want to disagree with the term “domination” I can amend it. Select a better one. I do notice, however, that she is _not_ known as QE I of GB. As the largest and most populous country by far of the United Kingdom it would be a little odd if we English _didn’t_ dominate the Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/44 "2012-03-23T23:25:12Z")
> [@Edward\_J\_Cunningham\_1](#): > > Thanks to an earlier poster, we now know why Prince Albert chose the name Edward VII after Queen Victoria died instead of the more obvious King Albert. > > Is that the same reason why **another** Prince Albert chose the name George VI after Edward VIII abdicated? That name was selected to provide continuity from the previous monarch after the confusion of Edward’s brief reign. > [@jayron\_32](#): > > After the death of Anne, it was Parliament again who chose George, Elector ot Hanover, to become King, who was only one of several decent protestant candidates for successor. If I recall correctly, current law holds that the crown can only be passed to a descendant of Sophie, Electra of Hanover. There are some five thousand or so such descendants, and there is an order of succession right down the the very last person in line for the throne, one Karin Vogel of Rostock, Germany. The line includes a number of American citizens, among quite a number of other nationalities. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/45 "2012-03-24T00:41:52Z")
> [@DavidIII](#): > > Treaty of Union > [scotshistoryonline.co.uk](http://www.scotshistoryonline.co.uk/union.html) > Note that the United Kingdom of Great Britain is an entity. Northern Ireland was bolted on in the 20th Century. Not quite. The United Kingdom of Great Britain was formed by union of the Scots and English crowns (which had been worn by the same person for 104 years already) in 1`707. Only 93 years later the UK of GB merged with the separate Kingdom of Ireland to produce the UK of GB and I. In 1922 when the Irish Free State was established, that final piece was changed to Northern Ireland. But it’s arguable that the Stormont provinces are the rump of the old Kingdom of Ireland, whose status would need to be addressed if Scotland does go for independence. ---
**Author:** ![DavidIII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@DavidIII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidIII)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/46 "2012-03-25T08:56:50Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **DavidIII** , thanks for your interesting input. > > But since you joined a conversation that’s been inactive for over 11 years, it may not draw much discussion now. > > But then again it may. The Treaty of Union was thought to be “…the ende o’ an aulde sang” at the time - and that was 300+ years ago. There is an active conversation going on in the real world in Scotland. Thanks for adding your encouragement. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/47 "2012-03-25T09:32:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Prince Philip Montcalm Zombie nitpick: Mountbatten. ---
**Author:** ![DavidIII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@DavidIII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidIII)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/48 "2012-03-25T09:55:55Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Not quite. The United Kingdom of Great Britain was formed by union of the Scots and English crowns (which had been worn by the same person for 104 years already) in 1`707. Only 93 years later the UK of GB merged with the separate Kingdom of Ireland to produce the UK of GB and I. In 1922 when the Irish Free State was established, that final piece was changed to Northern Ireland. But it’s arguable that the Stormont provinces are the rump of the old Kingdom of Ireland, whose status would need to be addressed if Scotland does go for independence. Polycarp: That’s a better way of putting it, I agree. But Ireland prior to the 1801 Union with UKofGB (I have just learned) albeit known as a Separate Kingdom, did not have a separate King. In 1603, James VI/I was king in the so-called “Personal Union”. Prior to that, the separate King of England was also the King of Ireland. Anyway - all this interesting stuff is beside the point I was making. This is the 1707 Treaty of union - which still stands, is a United Kingdom of Great Britain (The great or largest island) that consists of two united crowns - England and Scotland. To get back on topic:- The current Scottish bid for independence does not countenance a separate monarch, nor a republic. It could be argued that the United Kingdom will still exist - only at the Kingdom level rather than the parliamentary level. The British Monarch will still be King/ Queen of the citizens in Scotland. This will always go down well in many parts of Scotland because of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, was Scottish, being the daughter of the Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne - part of the old Scottish Peerage. I am quite happy to call QEQM the Queen Elizabeth I of Scotland. She is the popular lynchpin of any further Scottish royal history. Any Independent Scotland will of course, be open to a future bid to engulf it as part of England, only without the niceties. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/49 "2012-03-25T17:23:05Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Not quite. The United Kingdom of Great Britain was formed by union of the Scots and English crowns (which had been worn by the same person for 104 years already) in 1`707. Only 93 years later the UK of GB merged with the separate Kingdom of Ireland to produce the UK of GB and I. In 1922 when the Irish Free State was established, that final piece was changed to Northern Ireland. But it’s arguable that the Stormont provinces are the rump of the old Kingdom of Ireland, whose status would need to be addressed if Scotland does go for independence. Slight inaccuracy detected. Province, not provinces, but also the old disclaimer that although it is called a province it excludes three of the counties of the actual province of Ulster, Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan. ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2012, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349/50 "2012-03-25T19:19:48Z")
> [@DavidIII](#): > > There is an active conversation going on in the real world in Scotland. > Thanks for adding your encouragement. Don’t be offended because someone pointed out that your post revived a very old, dormant thread. You may not be familiar with the customs on this board, but it is considered undesirable to raise “zombies”. The better choice would have been to start a new thread, and link to this one for the sake of reference. We know you didn’t know. But now you do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-elizabeth-2nd-or-1st/18349.md?page=2)