# British Monarchy question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [May 5, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551 "2005-05-05T16:24:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/21 "2005-05-06T07:29:27Z")
> [@Pjen](#):
>
> You are relying too much on precedent as an absolute. As shown by our current Duchess of Cornwall (not known as the Princess of Wales) and Edward not becoming a Duke on his marriage (awaiting Dad’s Edinburgh tag) anything is possible if the official arbiters of historical precedence say so. Precedent is a guide only; the monarch is absolute in these matters and might well designate William as Duke of Cornwall, Earl of Rothsay etc. if Charles dies before her.
Yes, technically she can do whatever she wants, but Wills wouldn’t _automatically_ become Duke of Cornwall, etc. He would, assuming Phillip was also dead, become Duke of Edinburgh. And if the UK (& other commonwealth realms) adopt gender-equal succesion we may see the first Princess of Wales et al in her own right. Of course such reform won’t become a priority until Wills marries.
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### Author:  [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/22 "2005-05-06T09:52:39Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> Yes, technically she can do whatever she wants, but Wills wouldn’t _automatically_ become Duke of Cornwall, etc. He would, assuming Phillip was also dead, become Duke of Edinburgh. And if the UK (& other commonwealth realms) adopt gender-equal succesion we may see the first Princess of Wales et al in her own right. Of course such reform won’t become a priority until Wills marries.
As far as the Duke of Edinburgh is concerned, the Queen has indicated (as reflected in my post above) that Edward (not Wills as you say) will succeed to the Dukedom after the death of Phil the Greek.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/23 "2005-05-06T11:18:53Z")
Charles is inot organic farming etc. etc. and he is behind the brand "[Duchy Originals](http://www.duchyoriginals.com/) ". The pricy products are mostly comsumed by snobs and the proceeds go to his charitable foundation the Prince’s Trust but anyway you get an idea of how extensive his ‘personal’ domains are if they can support ventures like this. He also has a big estate in Gloucestershire which also contributes to the Duchy ingredients.
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### Author:  [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/24 "2005-05-06T11:48:57Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#):
>
> He could choose to be known by any of his given names: Charles Philip Arthur George.
It would be kinda cool if he chose “Arthur”.
But would he be King Arthur II ? 😉
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### Author:  [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/25 "2005-05-06T12:29:11Z")
Charles has said recently that he’ll be King Charles III.
When William was younger he was dead set against becoming King (this was after his Mum had died). I think he’s altered his views now.
Although quite a few people would prefer to see William on the throne when the Queen dies, Charles has been waiting a looooong time for his chance so he’ll not pass it up. When he loses his rag he often complains that he is not given the respect due to “the future King of England” - this doesn’t sound like someone who will meekly step aside because of a few newspaper polls.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/26 "2005-05-06T13:56:42Z")
By the way, it’s “Charles, Prince of Wales,” not “Prince Charles of Wales.”
So am I correct in reading the following conclusions from this discussion –
1. Upon the death of Elizabeth II, Charles automatically becomes king. I assume that there is theoretically some action that parliament could take to remove Charles from the succession, but barring that, there is no way for William to bump his father regardless of his age. If Charles is mentally incapacitated at the time his mother dies, he would still become king, but the parliament could look to the precedent of George III and his heir apparent and appoint William to the position of prince regent.
2. Upon acceding to the throne, Charles has the option of choosing a regnal name. (In 1936, Albert, Duke of York, chose the name “George VI,” in reflection of Queen Victoria’s sorrow at failing to get her husband, Prince Albert, declared king.) One article, attributed to questionable sources, has stated that he is considering using the name “George VII,” but more recent reports indicate he will stick with “Charles III.”
3. Should Charles die before Elizabeth does, there is no _automatic_ provision that would change Prince William’s titles or status, except that he would automatically move to the position of first in line of succession.
4. The Arthur of legend did not hold the title of king of Great Britain – he was Dux Bellorum and Comes Britanniae (war leader and protector of the Saxon shores). Anyway, the numbering starts with the Norman Conquest. Otherwise, the Duke of Windsor would have abdicated as Edward XI instead of Edward VIII.
5. King George V was frequently mistaken for Tsar Nicholas II and this allowed him access to the boudoirs of many an aspiring imperial paramour. 😃
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/27 "2005-05-06T15:21:29Z")
There is a famous picture of Nicholas and George 5.0 next to each other. They look like twin brothers. It’s the cover picture on “Lines of Succession” a book covering royal family lines of many, if not all, european countries. I forget the author, but I recommend the book to anyone interested in the purely historical side of the topic as well as heraldry. The book does not cover technical questions like the OP, unfortunately.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/28 "2005-05-06T15:47:46Z")
Would this be that picture? – [http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp)
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/29 "2005-05-06T16:02:41Z")
> [@acsenray](#):
>
> Would this be that picture? – [http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp)
That’s the one I saw in Massie’s _Nicholas and Alexandra_.
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### Author:  [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/30 "2005-05-06T18:08:38Z")
> [@acsenray](#):
>
> Would this be that picture? – [http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp)
Two guesses which European monarchs inspired the name of the “Imperial” style of facial hair.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/31 "2005-05-06T18:20:07Z")
Meet George, who lives in London town
As Prince of Wales, he gets around
But Nicky’s only been the Tsar
He stays in Russia and doesn’t go far
But by Granny, they’re family bound!
Cuz they’re cousins,
Imperial cousins all the way.
One pair of matching monarchs,
Different as night and day.
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/32 "2005-05-06T19:57:09Z")
> [@acsenray](#):
>
> Would this be that picture? – [http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2685.asp)
No, the picture I saw was a formal shot of them in full millitary regalia. It was also taken after George was crowned.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/33 "2005-05-06T20:02:25Z")
> [@Pjen](#):
>
> As far as the Duke of Edinburgh is concerned, the Queen has indicated (as reflected in my post above) that Edward (not Wills as you say) will succeed to the Dukedom after the death of Phil the Greek.
Not exactly, the Dukedom of Edinburgh will go to the heirs-male of Prince Phillip’s body. Like any normal dukedom it must first pass to the _eldest_ son, then the eldest son the the eldest son. Charles will get it when Phillip dies; the intention is that when Charles ascends to the throne and the Dukedom merges with the crown and is free to regrant, _then_ Edward will be created Duke of Edindurgh. If Charles dies before he becomes king Prince William will decome Duke of E.
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/34 "2005-05-06T20:03:57Z")
[Here’s](http://www.genealogy-shopper.com/catalog/product_409.html) a poor quality image of the book cover.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/35 "2005-05-06T20:16:01Z")
I bet Queen Victoria’s name comes up in there quite a bit.
🙂
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/36 "2005-05-07T04:28:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> I bet Queen Victoria’s name comes up in there quite a bit.🙂
Yes and it’s confusing as hell trying to keep track of it all. I’ve just been looking through the sections on the houses of Windsor and Hannover and that’s got my head spinning like a turret. The inbreeding in the royal families doesn’t help make it any clearer.
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### Author:  [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2005, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/37 "2005-05-07T11:31:11Z")
Nicholas II and George V were first cousins, as their mothers were sisters.
Princess Alix of Hesse-Darmstadt, who became, on her marriage to Nicholas II the Tsarina Alexandra, was first cousin to George V as well. Her mother and George’s father were brother and sister.
But Nicholas and Alix were not cousins(first cousins anyway) to each other.
The genealogy of European royalty _is_ complicated!
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### Author:  [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2005, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/38 "2005-05-07T11:54:30Z")
> [@Cunctator](#):
>
> Yes, the income from the estates of the Duchy of Cornwall - quite a considerable sum per annum I believe.
Indeed, the Duchy of Cornwall is a nice income. Here is a summary of the 2002 finances:
> [@](#):
>
> Total Duchy income for the 12 months amounted to £15,668,000. The estate’s lettings of agricultural, commercial, and residential properties contributed £14,232,000, the balance of income coming from investments in the Stock Exchange and interest on cash holdings. Operating costs for the Duchy rose, from £6,664,000 the previous year, to £6,757,000.
>
> Investment in improvements, maintenance, and repairs totalled £1,900,000.
The Prince doesn’t have to pay income tax on this money but choses to do so at around 40%. Neither he nor his sons draw money from the Civil List.
[Cite](http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/about/duc_index.html)
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### Author:  [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2005, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/39 "2005-05-07T12:24:51Z")
There is still a Czar Nicholas lookalike in the royal family. This is Prince Michael of Kent.
[Picture](http://www.princemichael.org.uk/)
A few years ago he was in Russia to attend the reburial of the last Czar and family. When walking around St. Petersburg he was stopped by a few elderly residents who thought their old ruler had come back to life !
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### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-monarchy-question/302551/40 "2005-05-07T13:14:20Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#):
>
> Meet George, who lives in London town
> As Prince of Wales, he gets around
> But Nicky’s only been the Tsar
> He stays in Russia and doesn’t go far
> But by Granny, they’re family bound!
>
> Cuz they’re cousins,
> Imperial cousins all the way.
> One pair of matching monarchs,
> Different as night and day.
Wrong Duke, dude! 😃
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