# British MP shot, stabbed (update: died from wounds) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 16, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533 "2016-06-16T15:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/61 "2016-06-17T20:38:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Maybe you’d like to explain what political point I was trying to make? “Fear mongers”, you said, alluding to those that want to leave the EU. Hardly siting on the fence, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/62 "2016-06-17T20:47:39Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > \*“That’s a more generous interpretation of the current campaigns than most objective people would venture. Did you see Nigel’s new poster campaign, unveiled this morning?” > \* > > So what current campaigns were you referring to? I haven’t said _anything_ about the motivation of Jo Cox’s murderer. > [@](#): > > Maybe you Scots, unlike the other nations in The British Isles have got too much time on your hands at the moment Oh, that’s a low blow 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/63 "2016-06-17T20:52:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, let’s see… > > 1. Witnesses saying he was yelling “Britain first!” during the murder. That doesn’t mean he was a member, but it does seem an indication he might hold similar sentiments to a group called Britain First > 2. Association with the Springbok club. I had never heard of them before but my spouse, who lived in Devon about 28 years ago, said he had heard about them while over there so presumably that crowd isn’t new. > 3. The target of his crime was not someone he was personally connected to, but yet did not seem random. One of the alternatives to “random” or “personal grudge” is “politics”. Not the only one, but add it to the list. > 4. A house containing extremist far-right literature. > 5. Manual on constructing home made weapons. > 6. Apparently, a home made gun, which indicates this is a premeditated crime as you don’t whip those up in three minutes with some gum, string, and a bit of tinfoil. > > Even if he had mental illness issues, there seems to be evidence of far-right ideological beliefs as well as some serious planning. Gee, let’s look at far right extremist British Groups. Look! “Britain First”. Among others. Maybe he’s not an official member but he seems live in the same neighborhood. And what’s coming up soon? A vote where the far right has taken a side opposite the murdered MP. Coincidence? Possibly… but honestly, questioning whether it’s possible or not? A little whack. There seems to be evidence that he’s had involvement with extreme right wing groups, I’m not denying that. That doesn’t mean, as the poeple I’ve named have alluded to that to be in favour of leaving the EU is to be an extreme right winger or a racist. A lot of the left of the Labour Party aren’t too keen on the EU either. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/64 "2016-06-17T21:12:37Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > I haven’t said _anything_ about the motivation of Jo Cox’s murderer. In the context of this thread, it seems like you inferred it. > [@](#): > > Oh, that’s a low blow 😃 Sorry, couldn’t resist it. Still smarting at the line “Cause England cannae be there cause they didnae qualify” from [“Ally’s Tartan Army”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tiSww7FJAE). Revenge is sweet:D ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/65 "2016-06-17T21:24:33Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > Revenge is sweet:D 18 years of hurt (and counting) for us ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/66 "2016-06-17T21:41:09Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > There seems to be evidence that he’s had involvement with extreme right wing groups, I’m not denying that. That doesn’t mean, as the poeple I’ve named have alluded to that to be in favour of leaving the EU is to be an extreme right winger or a racist. A lot of the left of the Labour Party aren’t too keen on the EU either. The fact that the right wing of any of these debates won’t acknowledge that you’ll end up with with these folk (the psychopathic, self-righteous, nationalists) on your side is telling. I have to put up with the dubious fringes of the left, in return. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/67 "2016-06-17T21:56:34Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Oh, go and read the news mate. I’ve read the news. Is your sentence _" This in the midst of a campaign which has seen some leading lights go out of their way to encourage fear and hatred of non-natives…"_ apolitical? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/68 "2016-06-17T22:06:01Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > The fact that the right wing of any of these debates won’t acknowledge that you’ll end up with with these folk (the psychopathic, self-righteous, nationalists) on your side is telling. I have to put up with the dubious fringes of the left, in return. Quite. People tend to love Marmite or hate it. I don’t know what Hitler/Stalin/Chairman Mao/Pol Pot/Kenny G’s views on it are/were, but it’s hardly fair to compare anyone of either side of the fence to any of them because of their particular taste. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/69 "2016-06-17T22:30:03Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > Quite. People tend to love Marmite or hate it. I don’t know what Hitler/Stalin/Chairman Mao/Pol Pot/Kenny G’s views on it are/were, but it’s hardly fair to compare anyone of either side of the fence to any of them because of their particular taste. No; I wasn’t saying that one shouldn’t tar all those of a political bent with the same brush. When there are extremists/mentally ill people (inevitably) reading your literature, acting out the rhetoric, the more poisonous ideologies will become apparent. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/70 "2016-06-17T22:40:24Z")
> [@Staggerlee](#): > > No; I wasn’t saying that one shouldn’t tar all those of a political bent with the same brush. When there are extremists/mentally ill people (inevitably) reading your literature, acting out the rhetoric, the more poisonous ideologies will become apparent. The “Quite” at the start of my post was meaning agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/71 "2016-06-17T23:44:53Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > “Fear mongers”, you said, alluding to those that want to leave the EU. Hardly siting on the fence, is it? When both sides know one side is fear mongers, that’s hardly taking a preferential position to describe that side as fear mongers. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/72 "2016-06-18T10:01:36Z")
[BBC](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36567005): > [@](#): > > Thomas Mair told Westminster Magistrates’ Court, “Death to traitors, freedom for Britain”, when asked to confirm his name. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/73 "2016-06-18T10:30:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > [BBC](http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36567005): > “Death to traitors, freedom for Britain”, when asked to confirm his name. Would he be addressed “Mr Death to traitors” or simply “Mr Death”? What about "Mr DTT? That’s assuming he gave last name first, as indicated by **Frank** ’s comma. And how will this affect those SovCit (UK version) issues which will no doubt arise? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/74 "2016-06-18T12:18:56Z")
> [@mascaroni](#): > > I’ve read the news. > > Is your sentence _" This in the midst of a campaign which has seen some leading lights go out of their way to encourage fear and hatred of non-natives…"_ apolitical? If you’ve read the news, you shouldn’t have had to ask whether Jo Cox was particularly involved in the Remain campaign or had a distinctive stance on immigration. The answers to those questions have been made obvious in practically everything written about her. And no, it wasn’t an apolitical comment. The murder of an MP in the middle of a referendum campaign by a far-right activist is a political issue. The various Leave campaigns made a deliberate choice to use racism to whip up votes and I am quite happy to call them on it. Especially when a torrent of racist rhetoric (“Breaking Point” posters that mimic Nazi propaganda, “75 million Turks coming for your NHS” leaflets, campaign rhetoric claiming refugees are probably terrorists, that British women will be raped by foreigners if things go on and actually predicting violence if the vote doesn’t go for Leave, to name but a few) just so happens to coincide with a member of a far right group finally feeling emboldened to build and use the makeshift gun he’s had instructions for for the past 17 years. I am quite comfortable arguing that these things are linked, and if you’re particularly concerned about the etiquette of UK politics I’d suggest you might want to start with the barely coded racism of a major national campaign before you start on a nobody like me posting on a US message board. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/75 "2016-06-18T13:31:56Z")
The day before she was murdered, Jo Cox’s husband was involved in a [Remain camp counter-demonstration](https://twitter.com/Jo_Cox1/status/743116090574839808) against the Exit faction’s widely-publicised [flotilla on the River Thames](https://twitter.com/kayaburgess/status/743022947355533312). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/76 "2016-06-18T14:19:54Z")
[Guido Fawkes](http://order-order.com/2016/06/15/remainers-disembark-geldofs-boat-in-disgust/) is reporting that some of those on the Remain flotilla left in disgust at Geldof’s behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/77 "2016-06-18T14:26:34Z")
[The Daily Telegraph](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/jo-cox-murder-thomas-mair-asked-for-mental-health-treatment-day/) say that Mair asked for mental health treatment the night before he shot Cox and was turned away. > [@](#): > > Mr Mair, 52, visited an alternative therapy centre in Birstall on Wednesday evening, the night before Mrs Cox was killed, where he explained he wanted treatment for depression. > > The owner of the Birstall Wellbeing Centre told Mr Mair to return the next day for an appointment but he never went back. Whoops. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/78 "2016-06-18T14:36:00Z")
The killer was either a member of Britain First or a sympathiser of their views. Here’s him at a Britain First demo: [Is this Thomas Mair at a Britain First protest?](http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/thomas-mair-britain-first-protest.html) That’s for the people who were doubting this was politically motivated. I don’t doubt that he had mental health problems, but so do most people who kill people for political reasons. When they’re brown, they’re called terrorists. Given his own statements, unless it turns out he was Jo Cox’s secret lover or something, who killed her for personal reasons, which I hazard a guess at not being the case, it is highly likely that Thomas Mair was a terrorist with mental health problems. There is no shame,or “too soon,” in making political comments about a politically-motivated killing. However, I don’t think this should sway people’s votes either way on the referendum and I doubt it will. > [@Quartz](#): > > [The Daily Telegraph](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/17/jo-cox-murder-thomas-mair-asked-for-mental-health-treatment-day/) say that Mair asked for mental health treatment the night before he shot Cox and was turned away. > > Whoops. I can’t really blame an alternative therapy centre for not sectioning him - they wouldn’t have had the powers to do so. Even authorities that do have the authority can only section somebody if they make specific threats to kill another person or themselves - and good thing too, otherwise people would be scared to ask for help. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/79 "2016-06-18T14:37:18Z")
Yes, I’m sure crystals would have stopped this. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533/80 "2016-06-23T14:07:55Z")
The murder suspect will go on trial in November: [Thomas Mair to go on trial in autumn accused of Jo Cox murder | UK news | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/23/thomas-mair-trial-accused-jo-cox-autumn-date-november) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-mp-shot-stabbed-update-died-from-wounds/757533.md?page=3)