# British newspaper gets involved in US election **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 19, 2004, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000 "2004-10-19T09:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mallocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@mallocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mallocks)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/21 "2004-10-19T11:21:13Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Perhaps the Guardian should think about putting birds with their thruppennies out on page 3? Don’t be facetious, I was pointing out that the fact that a newspaper has a higher circulation does not automatically point to a higher quality publication. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/22 "2004-10-19T11:38:50Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > IImagine if British Guardian readers started receiving unsolicited instructions from French people telling them to vote Conservative. > > This is gonna backfire bigtime. Who the hell would care? You might read it and then carry on with your vote reguardless. Is there any other election that the world in general cares about as much as the American one? We will all bitch and moan. We may bitch more loudly after the election depending on who wins. It won’t kill anyone (ok so it will kill some people but they are too busy dying to email). If some doofus decides who to vote for based on an email from a foreigner then they probably shouldn’t have voted anyway. If Americans are not clear on who the world wants them to vote for…well they were not listening very carefully or they don’t care…and why should they? (Fingers crossed that they are listening but it is all up to them. I hated their last decision I’m ready to keep hating him) ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/23 "2004-10-19T13:03:44Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > If Americans are not clear on who the world wants them to vote for…well they were not listening very carefully or they don’t care…and why should they? You got it right with “don’t care.” The only thing we need to consider when it comes to world opinion is foreign policy implications, if any, and we don’t give a fig what anyone else wants otherwise. Mind your own business. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/24 "2004-10-19T13:10:23Z")
It seems to me that the best reply is rather straightforward: > [@](#): > > Shame on you for using the people of Ohio like this. The US presidental election isn’t just about foreign policy, it’s about healthcare, taxes, education, transportation, natural resources and all manner of issues with little to no impact on the people of Britain. > > We live in a globalised, interconnected world. If China shuts its borders to US imports, you better believe American companies, shareholders and workers are affected. Should US citizens therefore have a direct say in Chinese policies? No - Americans should demand that their own elected leaders address the issues with their Chinese counterparts. The British have a similar voice in US policies - through your own elected representatives who have any number of diplomatic, economic and military tools at their disposal. You vote for your leaders and we’ll vote for ours. Your problem is with your leaders, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/25 "2004-10-19T13:23:45Z")
An ill thought out campaign by the Guardian. It does not look good to interfere with another country’s democratic process. The replies recieved were amusing though. In that sense it was a journalistic triumph. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/26 "2004-10-19T13:35:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Please be advised that I have forwarded this to the CIA and FBI. > United States > [@](#): > > Consider this: stay out of American electoral politics. Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys. > United States 😃😃😃😃😃😃 The Guardian’s plan is an idiotic one, but fuck me, some of those replies are funny. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/27 "2004-10-19T13:42:15Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > You got it right with “don’t care.” The only thing we need to consider when it comes to world opinion is foreign policy implications, if any, and we don’t give a fig what anyone else wants otherwise. > > Mind your own business. I was 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/28 "2004-10-19T13:51:37Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > You got it right with “don’t care.” The only thing we need to consider when it comes to world opinion is foreign policy implications, if any, and we don’t give a fig what anyone else wants otherwise. > > Mind your own business. We will. We’ll take a lesson from your guys’ fantastic non-interventionist policies. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/29 "2004-10-19T14:50:26Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > The Guardian’s plan is an idiotic one, but fuck me, some of those replies are funny. Yeah, but not in a good, deliberate way. They may have been provoked, but some of them display the attitude that the rest of the world find worrying about current American politics. The Guardian’s plan is misguided, to say the least, but you have to suspect they were being a bit mischievious. They don’t say if these replies come from anyone who actually received a letter from a concerned Guardian reader. It looks more like they’ve been trolling the internet, word has got around, and these are the emails from those who’ve risen to the bait. And I bet they got quite a few more, less publishable, replies. It’s not like it’s hard to get a rise out of the crazies on the net. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/30 "2004-10-19T15:36:18Z")
Judging by the tenor of the majority of the replies, I suspect that the _Guardian_ has been Freeped, but I can’t be arsed to go to the Free Republic site to find out. As for the interference by the Brits, as a Kerry supporter, may I say: Butt out, foreigners. All you accomplish is to solidify support for Bush. One of the charges the Bush camp makes against Kerry is that that he will sell out domestic security to curry favor with other nations, a charge that’s hard to refute with this kind of condescending meddling Thank you for the mental picture of Guardian readership, **Owlstretchingtime**. I now visualize the average Guardian subscriber as The Modern Parents from _Viz_. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/31 "2004-10-19T15:59:58Z")
You’re getting close with the Modern Parents - Throw in a bit of Student Grant, all of Millie Tant and a soupcon of the Critics and you’ve pretty much nailed it. Also “freeped” What’s that? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/32 "2004-10-19T16:08:00Z")
> [@mallocks](#): > > Well, I think the whole idea is horrendously arrogant, I don’t see how I or any of my “tea-sipping yellow-toothed” compatriats have any right to try to influence the vote, and the revulsion in some of the replies is, for me, understandable. Really? Then don’t you think it is time to get rid of the arrogance expressed by the US public and leadership in calling the president of the USA “the leader of the free world” (whatever that “free” means in practice). This even without asking the rest of the world about their opinion on the arrogant use of this self-proclaimed title? In additon: Don’t you think that it is then also time to get rid of the arrogance expressed in words, tone and practice - time and time again - that the US somehow is in a self-declared position to dictate how the rest of the world is governed? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/33 "2004-10-19T16:09:32Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > Mind your own business. Please do. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/34 "2004-10-19T16:10:59Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > You’re getting close with the Modern Parents - Throw in a bit of Student Grant, all of Millie Tant and a soupcon of the Critics and you’ve pretty much nailed it. > > Also “freeped” What’s that? “Freeping” is the process whereby posters at [FreeRepublic.com](http://FreeRepublic.com), a rabidly right-wing Web site (think American version of the National Front), coordinate a barrage of hate-filled e-mails at targets of their ire. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/35 "2004-10-19T16:49:06Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Really? > Then don’t you think it is time to get rid of the arrogance expressed by the US public and leadership in calling the president of the USA “the leader of the free world” (whatever that “free” means in practice). This even without asking the rest of the world about their opinion on the arrogant use of this self-proclaimed title? > > In additon: Don’t you think that it is then also time to get rid of the arrogance expressed in words, tone and practice - time and time again - that the US somehow is in a self-declared position to dictate how the rest of the world is governed? I’m with **mallocks** on this one. I don’t think we can try and get rid of said “arrogance” by sticking our oar into US politics. We don’t like it when they do it to the rest of the world. We should teach by example. I really hope Bush doesn’t win though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/36 "2004-10-19T16:53:34Z")
Probably 97% of people who get one of those letters will throw it out without giving it a second thought. (Maybe a third of those will open the letter and look at it first). 2.9999% will vote for Bush just to spite the arrogant foreigners who are trying to tell them how to vote. (No offense intended, unless you work for the _Guardian_) One guy will read the letter and vote for Kerry. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/37 "2004-10-19T21:44:11Z")
Clearly my reply right at the beginning of this thread has been ignored. So I’ll say it again. **The Guardian’s campaign has not encouraged anybody to write pro-Kerry or anti-Bush letters.** [Here’s](http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/) the original article. Tell me where anything pro-Kerry is said, and I’ll shut up. So why are most of the letters endorsing the Democrats? [Elsewhere](http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1309889,00.html) in the Guardian’s coverage, they explain: > [@](#): > > A survey by pollsters HI Europe earlier this month found that, if Europeans had a vote, they would back Kerry over Bush by a 6 to 1 margin. Bush would win just 6% in Germany, 5% in Spain and a measly 4% in France. And elsewhere on that same page is justification for the world seeking to have some influence in the US election, including: > [@](#): > > hat 1776 declaration is worth rereading. Its very first sentence demands “a decent respect to the opinions of mankind”: isn’t that exactly what the world would like from America today? The document goes on to excoriate the distant emperor George for his recklessness, insisting that authority is only legitimate when it enjoys “the consent of the governed”. As the world’s sole superpower, the US now has global authority. But where is the consent? ---
**Author:** ![mallocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@mallocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mallocks)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/38 "2004-10-19T21:51:11Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > And elsewhere on that same page is justification for the world seeking to have some influence in the US election … “When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.” Not a criticism at you **GorillaMan** , but at the Guardian for using this as justification, the Decleration of Independence states only that “a decent respect to the opinions of mankind” required that they state why they wish to separate, it is not a demand at all. ---
**Author:** ![Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/46a35a/32.png) [@Live\_Better\_Electrically](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Live_Better_Electrically)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/39 "2004-10-19T22:00:57Z")
Any letters from Guardian readers encouraging support for Kerry will fail. Kerry voters don’t need encouragement, Bush voters hate foreigners\*, and undecideds/non-voters will be either perplexed or annoyed. \*That’s an exaggeration, obviously, but there is some truth to it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000/40 "2004-10-19T22:01:50Z")
> [@](#): > > As the world’s sole superpower, the US now has global authority. But where is the consent? So the same people who object to the U.S. invading and exerting authority over Iraq wish to claim benefits as a result of the U.S. having authority over the world? I’m not exactly overwhelmed by the strength of The Guardian’s argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-newspaper-gets-involved-in-us-election/270000.md?page=3)