# British nicknames "Sixpence" and "Tuppence" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 21, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558 "2008-02-21T14:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/1 "2008-02-21T14:10:50Z")
I stumbled across the South African practice of calling the black servants “Sixpence” in Robert Heinlein’s travel book **Tramp Royale** , and thought it seemed pretty strange, but I’ve since encountered the nickname “sixpence” elsewhere (Nevil Shute had a character nicknamed that in one of his novels, for instance). This seems odd. Can anyone tell me where this practivce of nicknaming people after money came from? (It seems especially odd since the sixpence itself had a nickname, the “Tanner”). Is it related to the use of “Tuppence” as a nickname? I only knew of this as a nickname Agathat Christie used in her “Tommy and Tuppence” series, but Googling it I find that it was also the name of a doll made in New Zealand and Australia, and the website says that “Tuppence [was] an endearing nickname of the time” [http://home.alphalink.com.au/~jenjoy/Tuppence.html](http://home.alphalink.com.au/~jenjoy/Tuppence.html) Well, there’s “Penny” as an American nickname (although I don’t know if it’s related to the coin), but we don’t have any Nickels or Dimes or Quarters or Half Dollars. The idea of naming people after coins seems very weird. Any insights? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/2 "2008-02-21T14:12:16Z")
I don’t know either - but just wanted to say ‘Penny’ is usually a short form of Penelope. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/3 "2008-02-21T14:13:11Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Well, there’s “Penny” as an American nickname [/QUOTE] And as a real name, too, of course. Edit: ‘usually’ a short form of Penelope? A quick check on the Baby Name Wizard shows that Penelope had a spike in popularity at a different earlier time to Penny, which appears mainly in the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/4 "2008-02-21T14:20:41Z")
I know a lot of Europeans in Southern Africa gave their servants nicknames because they couldn’t pronounce their real names. My Grandmother, for example, had a gardener called Tickey, which is a nickname for the threepenny coin. He was small, like the coin, so he was “Tickey”, I assume it was a nickname someone had given him at some point. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/5 "2008-02-21T14:26:27Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know either - but just wanted to say ‘Penny’ is usually a short form of Penelope. Not invariably, though. I knew a Penny whose real name was “Pandora”. > [@](#): > > I know a lot of Europeans in Southern Africa gave their servants nicknames because they couldn’t pronounce their real names. > > My Grandmother, for example, had a gardener called Tickey, which is a nickname for the threepenny coin. He was small, like the coin, so he was “Tickey”, I assume it was a nickname someone had given him at some point. I’m familiar with the tradition of giving nicknames or alternate names to non-European folk. It’s widespread amomng grad students (I knew an Indian woman who called herself “Daisy”. My mother had a student from China who used “Mabel” – neither of them names I’d choose, myself, but tastes vary) But what made Heinlein’s report weird was that he said ALL of the servants were called “Sixpence”. That’s beyond mere nicknaming – it’s submerging identity by using the same name for all of an ethnic group. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/6 "2008-02-21T14:44:45Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Not invariably, though. I knew a Penny whose real name was “Pandora”. [/QUOTE] If my name were “Pandora,” I’d get a nickname real fast too. Who’s going to hire someone with the name “Pandora”? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/7 "2008-02-21T14:48:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Who’s going to hire someone with the name “Pandora”? Depends on your business. It has a New Age-y sense to it, and a classical leaning. _I’d_ hire a Pandora, myself. And it would be a GREAT name for a stripper or a hooker who catered to a classically-minded clientele. (D&R) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/8 "2008-02-21T15:16:10Z")
I believe that during the British Raj, it was not uncommon for British people in India to transfer a nickname from one servant to another, depending on function. Quite often, the nickname might just be the job title, like “Khansamar” for a cook or “Ayah” for a child’s nurse. But, although I can’t think of any examples, I believe that this was also done with regular names or nicknames as well. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/9 "2008-02-21T15:40:42Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] I’m familiar with the tradition of giving nicknames or alternate names to non-European folk. It’s widespread amomng grad students (I knew an Indian woman who called herself “Daisy”. My mother had a student from China who used “Mabel” – neither of them names I’d choose, myself, but tastes vary) [/QUOTE] It happened with servants in Britain too, at one time: if the mistress of the house disliked the name of a new maid (too common, too Irish or whatever) she’d assign her a new one which she would answer to while working there. In some cases there were traditional names that went with the job – a lady’s maid might always be called Abigail, for instance, no matter what the actual name of the person filling that function might happen to be. [QUOTE=CalMeacham] But what made Heinlein’s report weird was that he said ALL of the servants were called “Sixpence”. That’s beyond mere nicknaming – it’s submerging identity by using the same name for all of an ethnic group. [/QUOTE] I haven’t read it, but could it be more like calling all boat captains “Skipper”? A nickname for the role, rather than the person? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/10 "2008-02-21T15:46:05Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] If my name were “Pandora,” I’d get a nickname real fast too. Who’s going to hire someone with the name “Pandora”? [/QUOTE] A theatrical ticket reseller? (Pandora’s Box Office) A contact sports arena? (Pandora’s Boxing Ring) ---
**Author:** ![JimOfAllTrades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@JimOfAllTrades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimOfAllTrades)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/11 "2008-02-21T20:47:35Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] But what made Heinlein’s report weird was that he said ALL of the servants were called “Sixpence”. That’s beyond mere nicknaming – it’s submerging identity by using the same name for all of an ethnic group. [/QUOTE] It does seem odd and demeaning, and I don’t know where or why the practice originated. I will just note it was more widespread than I would have thought. In this country (USA) for example, for many years it was a common practice to refer to all railroad sleeping car porters as George. This practice apparently lasted at some level into the 1960s. Ignoring the demeaning (and probably racist) overtones, the origin of “George” as the nickname for that group seems easier to pin down than ‘Sixpence”, at least from what I’ve heard. It apparently comes from George Pullman, who was the head of the company that manufactured the biggest chunk of that type of railroad car. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/12 "2008-02-21T23:31:14Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] A theatrical ticket reseller? (Pandora’s Box Office) A contact sports arena? (Pandora’s Boxing Ring) [/QUOTE] I’ve never heard of them. I just think of Pandora’s Box. Pandora=trouble. (In a joking way.) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/13 "2008-02-21T23:57:31Z")
[QUOTE=guizot] If my name were “Pandora,” I’d get a nickname real fast too. Who’s going to hire someone with the name “Pandora”? [/QUOTE] Adrian Mole. In my family, our parents all gave us silly nicknames when we were kids. My younger sister’s was “tuppence ha’penny” which is just a way to indicate that she was the smaller of the two girls, because it’s a small amount of money. ---
**Author:** ![Carson\_O\_Genic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Carson\_O\_Genic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carson_O_Genic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/14 "2008-02-22T09:03:47Z")
[QUOTE=irishgirl] I know a lot of Europeans in Southern Africa gave their servants nicknames because they couldn’t pronounce their real names. My Grandmother, for example, had a gardener called Tickey, which is a nickname for the threepenny coin. He was small, like the coin, so he was “Tickey”, I assume it was a nickname someone had given him at some point. [/QUOTE] ``` Actually,a tikkie was two and one half cents,phased out in the mid 1960s.The etymology is from the Afrikaans but memory isn't allowing access currently. Although I never heard anyone call a servant by any form of "pence" whilst living in S.A.,most black South Africans (formerly referred to as Bantu) had English face names,Robert,Andrew etc.The tool boy who worked with me was named Lucas though I called him Matiro. ``` ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/15 "2008-02-22T16:45:09Z")
Must admit, I’ve never encountered “Sixpence” as a name for servants ever. Also, “Tickey” was also the name of a reasonably famous (locally) midget clown with the Boswell & Wilkie circus, so it’s possible a short person might have been named in reference to him not the coin directly (he, of course, being named after the coin himself) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/16 "2008-02-22T16:51:04Z")
Pandora’s Box would be a cool name for a lingerie store. Mark Twain took a tour through Europe and wrote a book about it called _The Innocents Abroad_. Actually, I think that the book was a compilation of a series of newspaper articles. One of the running jokes was that in every country he visited he called his tour guide Ferguson. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/17 "2008-02-22T16:55:33Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Well, there’s “Penny” as an American nickname (although I don’t know if it’s related to the coin), but we don’t have any Nickels or Dimes or Quarters or Half Dollars. The idea of naming people after coins seems very weird. Any insights? [/QUOTE] Well actually you don’t have any pennies either, you have cents, we have pennies. Just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Jinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Captain\_Jinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Jinks)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/18 "2008-02-22T17:45:06Z")
[QUOTE=RJKUgly] It does seem odd and demeaning, and I don’t know where or why the practice originated. [/QUOTE] The British had a convoluted way of addressing servants. An upstairs maid might be dubbed with a more suitable name if necessary (incident mentioned in _Miss Manner’s Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior_.) Some servants were addressed by last name (lady’s maid, butler), some by first (gardner, IIRC). The cook was addressed as “Cook”, and I think the Tweeny ('tween stairs maid) was addressed as such, too. “Abigail” was the generic term for a ([lady’s maid](http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/brewers/abigail.html) ). Governess was addressed with honorific (“Miss Prickett”). ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/19 "2008-02-22T18:33:51Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] Pandora’s Box would be a cool name for a lingerie store. [/QUOTE] They beat you to it:[http://yellowpages.charleston.com/Pandora--27s+Box.262135.96110098.home.html](http://yellowpages.charleston.com/Pandora--27s+Box.262135.96110098.home.html) ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558/20 "2008-02-22T22:16:16Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] Well actually you don’t have any pennies either, you have cents, we have pennies. Just sayin’ [/QUOTE] Sure we do. We also have bucks and Benjamins, regardless of whether or not the names are enshrined in statutes. [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Penny](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Penny) God, I hope we get rid of pennies in my lifetime. How I hate them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-nicknames-sixpence-and-tuppence/438558.md?page=2)