# British pronunciation of "foreign" words **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406 "2003-08-29T11:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/1 "2003-08-29T11:40:56Z")
This one has always puzzled me. I’ve noticed many British people tend to go out of their way to pronounce certain foreign words incorrectly, incorrectly meaning not as the natives would say it even though the sounds are perfectly normal in English. For example, the words “pasta” and “taco”. These are Italian and Spanish words respectively. (no kidding) They should be pronounceed “pah-stah” and “tah - ko”. But the Brits tend to say “pass-tah” and “tack-o”. Even in the US where we mangle foreign words with regularity these simple words are pronounced properly. So what gives? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/2 "2003-08-29T11:58:00Z")
We do it to annoy you personally **BwanaBob**. Seriously, if you can figure out why you guys “mangle foreign words with regularity” you will have found the answer to your question. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/3 "2003-08-29T12:04:04Z")
Just for the purposes of the words chosen here, I would say it is because there are far more people in the US of Italian descent or of Spanish speaking descent from South America, living in the US. So those words are routinely pronounced in the correct fashion, by those from whose language they come, so that the people who are not from Italian or Spanish speaking stock can pick up on the correct pronuncuation. All nations are susceptible to this, I think. How could anyone know instinctively how to pronounce a word from a foreign language with different phonetics and emphases? If anyone can tell me why Maryland is pronounced the way it is, then I promise to say “pass-tah” and “tack-o” in future. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/4 "2003-08-29T12:06:44Z")
We (USA) tend to mangle words that contain sounds not native to English. French words get beat up quite often. I chose the pasta and taco examples because these words are no-brainers. The vowel sounds exist in English. Really, no excuse to mispronounce them. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/5 "2003-08-29T12:11:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by curly chick \* > \*\* > If anyone can tell me why Maryland is pronounced the way it is, then I promise to say “pass-tah” and “tack-o” in future. \*\* I’m with you there. Maryland has always puzzled me and I was born here. While we’re at it, people in Missouri supposedly pronounce their state “Missourah”, so go figure! ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/6 "2003-08-29T12:20:20Z")
Because, despite what you seem to believe, these particular words are not no-brainers. Nothing about the spelling of either ‘pasta’ and ‘taco’ indicates that ‘pah-stah’ and ‘tah - ko’ are the more obvious pronunciations. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/7 "2003-08-29T12:21:05Z")
Being from the Left Coast, I’ve always pronounced Maryland “MARE-i-land”. How do “we” pronounce it? “mary-LAND”? “Throat-warbler-mangrove”? (I did hear a joke once about someone who pronounced it “MER-lin”.) I can see how Cholmondeley becomes “CHUM-lee”, and I can see how Woolfhardisworthy becomes “WOOL-zee”; but how does Menzies become “MING-gus”? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/8 "2003-08-29T12:23:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Nothing about the spelling of either ‘pasta’ and ‘taco’ indicates that ‘pah-stah’ and ‘tah - ko’ are the more obvious pronunciations. It’s true that nothing about the _spelling_ indicates the proper pronunciation, but knowing the words’ origins (i.e., Italian and Spanish) would make it obvious that the "a"s are pronounced “ah”. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/9 "2003-08-29T12:25:54Z")
What am I missing? Have I been pronouncing Maryland wrong all these years? How do the natives pronounce it? I’d say 'mɛəri,lænd (if you’ve not got the right Unicode font, that’s just “Mary-land”). The dictionary gives the alternative 'mÉ›rɪlÉ›nd, or “MERR-ee-lund”. Is that the “proper” way? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/10 "2003-08-29T12:27:49Z")
Er… don’t know what’s going on with those fonts. Apologies if that’s giving you square eyes… ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/11 "2003-08-29T12:28:38Z")
r\_k’s post had it in there. Though I’d say it’s closer to “Mair-uh-lund” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/12 "2003-08-29T12:32:28Z")
I’m willing to bet **BwanaBob** mangles “Worcestershire sauce” when he says it. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/13 "2003-08-29T12:36:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*It’s true that nothing about the _spelling_ indicates the proper pronunciation, but knowing the words’ origins (i.e., Italian and Spanish) would make it obvious that the "a"s are pronounced “ah”. \*\* If I (or the majority of my countrymen) had any idea about proper Italian and Spanish pronunciation, you might be right. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/14 "2003-08-29T12:55:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*I can see how Cholmondeley becomes “CHUM-lee”, and I can see how Woolfhardisworthy becomes “WOOL-zee”; but how does Menzies become “MING-gus”? \*\* Menzies is an ancient Scottish name. There is no z in the Scots _gaidhlig_ alphabet, so in the very far distant past, whichever invaders it was decided to decipher the written name with a z. (This is based on foggy recollections of what a very well heeled Edinburgh gentleman told me one weekend at an international rugby match. Menzies was his middle name) ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/15 "2003-08-29T13:05:58Z")
There are other words of Spanish and Italian origin that are routinely mispronounced here. Perhaps the worst one is the island of Ibiza, but I’ve also noticed chorizo sausage being pronounced _tshuritso_ (which seems to me to be a hybrid of Spanish and Italian). The reason for this may very well be a lack of familiarity with how these words are pronounced in their source languages, and **curly chick** has offered a reasonable explanation for why British English and American English differ in that respect. Lack of phonemes doesn’t explain why Americans “mispronounce” many of the words they do, but in the end pronunciation is a matter of convention, and if a certain pronunciation sticks you’re stuck with it. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Johnny L.A._ > I can see how Cholmondeley becomes “CHUM-lee”, and I can see how Woolfhardisworthy becomes “WOOL-zee”; but how does Menzies become “MING-gus”? The “z” in Menzies (and several other Scottish names) is a mistranscription of an obsolete consonant called a _yogh_ that looked like a z with a hanging tail, but was pronounced like a ringing g. [See here for more info – scroll down to The Alphabet.](http://www.scots-online.org/grammar/pronunci.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/16 "2003-08-29T13:12:18Z")
Is the newsagent chain John Menzies pronounced this way too? I’ve only ever heard it pronouced “Menzees”, even though I’m aware of the correct spelling of the surname. It somehow seems affected applying it to a shop - like saying “W H Smythe”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/17 "2003-08-29T13:14:47Z")
D’oh… should have poked around on that site before posting: [http://www.menziesgroup.com/history/pronunciation.html](http://www.menziesgroup.com/history/pronunciation.html) > [@](#): > > A lively young damsel named Menzies > > Inquired: “Do you know what this thenzies?” > > Her aunt, with a gasp, > > Replied: "It’s a wasp, > > And you’re holding the end where the stenzies." ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/18 "2003-08-29T13:24:36Z")
Whatever is the history of the company, or how its directors might prefer us to pronounce its name, I’ve only ever heard it pronounced Menzees too (and I suspect the same is true north of the border). ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/19 "2003-08-29T13:30:20Z")
My favorite example is the BBC reporter who pronounced “Nicaragua” as “nick-ur-agg-you-uh.” City names in the US which are descended from Spanish also get mangled. Examples I can think of are Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Angelo, Amarillo, Eldorado (Texas), and Lamesa (Texas). Yes, Eldorado is actually pronounced with a long-a sound in the middle, and Lamesa with a long-e sound. But this is a little different, since those are now the proper pronunciations of those place names. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/20 "2003-08-29T13:44:13Z")
Pronunciation of ‘foreign’ words gets mangled; it is just a plain fact of life - **CurtC** mentions Nicaragua, but the newsreader pronunciation mentioned is just the way that most people say it here (in fact you may well be considered pretentious if you call it Nee-Ha-Rah-Wah). Sorry, but that is just the way things go (just the same as most Americans and Brits do not call the capital city of France ‘Pa-ree’ - they have their own pronunciation - it isn’t necessarily ‘wrong’, just different. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406.md?page=2)