# British pronunciation of "foreign" words **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406 "2003-08-29T11:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/21 "2003-08-29T14:10:57Z")
“Pah-stah” and “tah-ko” are not much better than the British “pass-ta” and “tacko” - the correct pronunciations are somewhere in between. I’ve noticed a tendency among Americans to pronounce _all_ foreign 'a’s as if they were ‘ah’, for example the “Kahn” (Cannes) Film Festival, when the correct French pronunciation is very close to English “Can”. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/22 "2003-08-29T14:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > A lively young damsel named Menzies > Inquired: “Do you know what this thenzies?” > Her aunt, with a gasp, > Replied: “It’s a wasp, > And you’re holding the end where the stenzies.” > A lively young damsel named Menzies **r\_k** , I like this little limerick, but aside from its Menzie cleverness, it shows that in English, at least, the vowel “a” has no one particular sound, so why should anyone presume that vowels in other languages have the same singular sound? Does wasp rhyme with gasp to _ **any** _ native English speaker? ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/23 "2003-08-29T14:22:11Z")
Mucked up with the copying and pasting there, sorry about that. Oh, and now I see that I am agreeing with **Usram** Excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/24 "2003-08-29T14:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BwanaBob \* > \*\*This one has always puzzled me. > > But the Brits tend to say “pass-tah”\*\* Actually, they say “pass-ter”. And then there’s the really dimwitted one: “jag-yoo-arr”. ---
**Author:** ![hammos1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@hammos1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hammos1)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/25 "2003-08-29T14:46:17Z")
Both Americans and Brits mangle foreign pronunciations, but not surprisingly, Americans have a better handle on Spanish pronunciation, while most Brits have enough French to make a _reasonable_ attempt there. I think the Nicaragua example is a good one- _I_ know that’s how it’s pronounced by native speakers, but there’s no way I’m going to say ‘Neehaarahwaa’ to indicate that country without being laughed out of the room. Similarly, I don’t bother pronouncing the name of the French carmaker Renault correctly (with a neutral ‘e’- it should sound almost like ‘Ruh-no’, not ‘Reh-no’) because _nobody_ gives a shit this side of the channel. Making youself understood to the local population is more important than protecting the lingustic sensibilities of speakers of the foreign tongue. Furthermore, you’re on a hiding to nothing, because even if your pronunciation is closer to the original, it still won’t be spot on- I can’t pronounce the ‘R’ of Renault well enough to pass muster with a Frenchman anyway, so there’s no justification in my getting snooty! ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/26 "2003-08-29T14:50:23Z")
We don’t “go out of our way to pronounce foreign words incorrectly” at all. Rather, we don’t go out of our way to pronounce common English words of foreign origin in the way that we think a native speaker of a foreign language might pronounce them. And there’s no reason why we should, either – who made a rule that we have to pronounce Italian words as an Italian-speaker would, or Spanish words as a Spanish-speaker? And which pronunciation should we use? Mexican? Castillian? You know what the Italian is for steak? “Biftek”. Derived from the English “beef steak”. You think they make any effort to pronounce it as an Englishman would? Or an American? They don’t even spell it properly. And why should they? It’s their language, they get to do what they like with it. English is full of words which originally came from other languages. Something like half the most commonly used words in the language come from Norman French – should we pronounce all of those as the French would? ---
**Author:** ![Peregrine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a6a055/32.png) [@Peregrine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peregrine)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/27 "2003-08-29T14:58:24Z")
It’s really not a matter of correctness, but it’s curious nonetheless. The OP specifically mentions words with a flat _a_ where Americans would use a broad _a_. This is particularly striking because the usual pattern is quite the reverse; broad _a_s abound in British usage, while American speech tends toward the flat version. Other examples of the type in the OP: aqua, Wotan, Valhalla, and wigwam. I haven’t turned up anything that shows how this came about, but it’s not surprising that different regions have different pronunciation preferences . A discussion at [Bartleby](http://www.bartleby.com/185/17.html) includes a quote by Joseph Emerson Worcester, the nineteenth century New England lexicographer: “To pronounce the words fast, last, glass, grass, dance, etc.,” he said, “with the proper sound of short a, as in hat, has the appearance of affectation; and to pronounce them with the full Italian sound of a, as in part, father, seems to border on vulgarism.” And \*\* Dogface\*\*, I really don’t think it’s right to call any regional variant “dimwitted”. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/28 "2003-08-29T16:24:45Z")
> [@](#): > > While we’re at it, people in Missouri supposedly pronounce their state “Missourah”, so go figure! I had to move _away_ from St. Louis to discover that anyone ever pronounced it like that. There are some people, apparently, but I suspect it’s like people who say " 'Nited States 'v Muraka" ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/29 "2003-08-29T16:42:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by APB \* > \*\*Because, despite what you seem to believe, these particular words are not no-brainers. Nothing about the spelling of either ‘pasta’ and ‘taco’ indicates that ‘pah-stah’ and ‘tah - ko’ are the more obvious pronunciations. \*\* And, in fact, there is a manufacturer of zone valves for boilers by the name of “Taco”, which is pronounced “tay-ko”. The one that grates on my ears, Brit-wise, is the pronounciation of **Nicaragua**. Brits say “Nicker-ag-you-ah”, which is not even in the ballpark. Americans say “Nicker-ah-gwah”, which is still not correct from a Spanish language viewpoint, but much closer. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/30 "2003-08-29T22:14:11Z")
> [@](#): > > And, in fact, there is a manufacturer of zone valves for boilers by the name of “Taco”, which is pronounced “tay-ko”. This reminds me of Waco and Waco. The city in Texas is pronounced “WAY-ko”. The airplane manufacturer is pronounced “WAH-ko”. > [@](#): > > Similarly, I don’t bother pronouncing the name of the French carmaker Renault correctly I do. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/31 "2003-08-29T22:56:59Z")
As a Spanish-speaker, I usually giggle a bit when I hear British people saying Spanish words. But one thing I have noticed is that some British people do use the Castillian ‘th’ sound when pronouncing z’s and soft c’s. Perhaps some of the pronunciations of “Ibiza” and “chorizo” reflect that. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/32 "2003-08-29T23:51:31Z")
As am Aussie here on the sidelines, I’ve always gotten the impression that Americans tend to mangle foreign words more than the Brits (with exceptions, such as Spanish words). An it’s not through ignorance, either. Americans often seem to make a point of doing this. Not judging here; just my observations. As for “Menzies”, because a very famous former Australian Prime Minister of that name pronounced it “Men-zeez”, I didn’t know there was a “correct” way of saying it. I was surprised when I saw an ABC (Australia) newsreader’s name in print, and that it was Menzies. He always signed off on the radio as “Mingis”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/33 "2003-08-29T23:56:07Z")
SMYTHE. “Smith”, or “Smythe” (rhymes with “writhe”)? ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/34 "2003-08-30T00:22:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Peregrine \* > **includes a quote by Joseph Emerson Worcester, the nineteenth century New England lexicographer: “To pronounce the words fast, last, glass, grass, dance, etc.,” he said, “with the proper sound of short a, as in hat, has the appearance of affectation; and to pronounce them with the full Italian sound of a, as in part, father, seems to border on vulgarism.”** The strange thing about this is that here and now, it is the long “a” (as in “father”) that would sound affected in words like “fast”, etc. I notice that “bruschetta” always seems to be pronounced “brushetta” - possibly because when people see “sch” in a word they pronounce it as if it were German. I’m all in favour of people adapting foreign words to the phonology of their own language. I don’t think it’s appropriate to try to replicate the Spanish pronunciation of Nicaragua, or the French pronunciation of Renault when speaking English. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/35 "2003-08-30T00:34:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think it’s appropriate to try to replicate… the French pronunciation of Renault when speaking English. What about “Porsche”? Many English-speakers pronounce it “porsh”; but it’s a surname, and the Porsche family pronounce it “por-shuh”. I think it is appropriate to pronounce it the way the it’s supposed to be pronounced. Why would Renault be any different? ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/36 "2003-08-30T00:59:57Z")
I have no problem with people saying “por-shuh” - it uses only sounds that exist in English. I never said people should pronounce foreign words according to English spelling rules. But to pronounce “Renault” in the French manner, you would have to use sounds that don’t exist in English. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/37 "2003-08-30T01:18:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by r\_k \* > \*\*What am I missing? Have I been pronouncing Maryland wrong all these years? How do the natives pronounce it? > > I’d say 'mɛəri,lænd (if you’ve not got the right Unicode font, that’s just “Mary-land”). The dictionary gives the alternative 'mÉ›rɪlÉ›nd, or “MERR-ee-lund”. > > Is that the “proper” way? \*\* As a native of the Free State, I can advise you that many of my fellow residents, especially those born in our largest city, pronounce it “Merlin.” (BTW, that city: Bawlamer.) However, most other Americans pronounce it correctly: MARE-i-lund. I always find it amusing that my British friends, from places like Leicester or Worcester, assume we Americans pronounce this state as if it were a religious theme park: Mary-Land. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/38 "2003-08-30T01:37:50Z")
This seems to be the place to ask about this: Why do Brits pronounce Richard Strauss’ _Don Juan_ Don Jew-an? Yes, it looks like that, but this seems like a pointed refusal to pronounce a foreign word. And what about Jag-ew-ar? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/39 "2003-08-30T01:41:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do Brits pronounce Richard Strauss’ _Don Juan_ Don Jew-an? They also say “jun-ta” instead of “hoon-ta”. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/40 "2003-08-30T04:03:07Z")
Relevant Anectdote: The first week on the job at a consulting firm, I’m having lunch in the breakroom with two other new hires, both new to the area. One is a native east Texan, the other is from England and of Indian extraction. The discussion turns to how they were quickly stocking their freezers with conveineince foods, when the Texan mentions a frozen-veggie-and-meat-in-a-bag product called “Chicken Voila!” Of course, what she said was “Chicken Wallah.” Confused, our British coworker asks “What’s Wallah?” Which elicited a confused look from the Texan, who explained that it’s not a preparation style, but an expression roughly equal to “ta-da.” Being knowledgable about French (16 semester hours worth, anyhow) I could have corrected or clarified, but I didn’t want to embarass the Texan…she was pretty cute. Also: Hereabouts, “Renault” is gonna be pronounced “Ren-alt” about 80% of the time. And even though we’re well-nigh saturated with spanish-speaking cultures, Pedernales is Per-duh-nal-ez, Menchaca is Man-shack and San Jacinto is San Juh-sinto (well, cuz “we” won that one…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406.md?page=3)