# British pronunciation of "foreign" words **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406 "2003-08-29T11:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/101 "2003-09-02T02:55:39Z")
Doh! I see I was beaten to that. Sowwy. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/102 "2003-09-02T05:10:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BwanaBob \* > \*\*Because there is NO way in English to pronounce “notre” properly. > > The “r” sounds does not exist. > \*\* IMHO the American way of saying “Notre Dame” is characterised by the hard “o” and “a” sounds, not the “r” sound. If we are complaining about pronunciation, I really can’t think of an excuse for saying “Dayme” instead of “Dahm”. But then again, I am not complaining. I am pretty sure all nationalities mangle foreign words. Where I live, Sweden, they can’t even say “England” properly, coming out with ehng-land instead of ing-lund. They do that because eng-land is the proper Swedish pronunciation and thus I never complain about it. Strange, that. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/103 "2003-09-02T05:57:53Z")
Do most people say “dayme”?? I’ve always said and heard it as “Notruh dahm” ---
**Author:** ![trabi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@trabi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trabi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/104 "2003-09-02T06:07:18Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bwana Bob_ > Someone had to hear it, see it’s spelling, see that the spelling is not alien to English, and yet deliberately change it’s pronunciation to suit their own fancy. That is the most ridiculous theory of phonetics that I’ve ever heard. Is this GQ or In My Humble Conspiracy Theory? Who is this mysterious Darth Vader character who goes around deliberately sabotaging the Spanish tongue? And how does he brainwash so many people into using his fiendishly manipulated words? [sup]Does he have… a 1920s-style death ray?[/sup] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/105 "2003-09-02T06:39:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Do most people say “dayme”?? I’ve always said and heard it as “Notruh dahm” \*\* In my highly scientific research of watching US programmes on TV, I would says yes. ---
**Author:** ![bifar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bifar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bifar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/106 "2003-09-02T10:13:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Do the French, Spanish, Germans etc. have perfect English pronounciation? A really good example in French is the word ‘shampooing’ which means ‘shampoo’ but is pronounced ‘shampwaing’ with a real twang on the second syllable. On the other hand, the French pronunciation of originally English words such as ‘weekend’ and ‘whisky’ is pretty much recognisable. So there you go. ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/107 "2003-09-02T10:21:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by trabi \* > \*\*What hijack, Bwana Bob? > > ## quote: > > ## And as for Jaguar motor vehicles, the jaguar animal was around long before the company and was never pronounced jag-you-er. > > WRONG - I pronounce it exactly like that, and so do a lot of people I know. > \*\* Agreed … I’d go so far as to say that _all_ English people (y’know … they speak **English** English 😉 ) pronounce it that way. Julie ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/108 "2003-09-02T10:42:23Z")
So, my friends on the SDMB, three pages to ascertain that you say tomayto and I say tomahto. I am sure we all knew that anyway. Americans are correct in America Canadians are correct in Canada British people are correct in Britain Irish people are correct in Ireland It is only when one side tries to tell the other that they are wrong that we have real igonorance to fight. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/109 "2003-09-02T10:46:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by curly chick \* > **So, my friends on the SDMB, three pages to ascertain that you say tomayto and I say tomahto.** And Ireland they say tomatto. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/110 "2003-09-02T11:22:27Z")
Something just occurred to me – is it **BwanaBob’s** contention that if I were to introduce stottie cakes into the US, all Americans would naturally attempt to affect a Geordie accent every time they mentioned them? Because I could do with a few laughs. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/111 "2003-09-02T11:32:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WotNot \* > \*\*Something just occurred to me – is it **BwanaBob’s** contention that if I were to introduce stottie cakes into the US, all Americans would naturally attempt to affect a Geordie accent every time they mentioned them? > > Because I could do with a few laughs. \*\* Now I must know - how does one pronounce “stottie” ? Seriously, curly chick is spot on. It was never my intent to “attack”, I guess I should have phrased the OP differently. It was more out of curiousity as to how those two words wound up being pronounced differently in UK. No agenda about correctness was intended. Mea culpa (someone feel free to enlighten me as to proper Latin pronunciation - I need some schooling as many of you imply.)😉 ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/112 "2003-09-02T11:49:22Z")
Stottie cakes. BwanaBob, only Geordies have the verbal talent to say this in the vernacular. You and I have no chance, although, if there are some going spare, might I suggest you ask for one as best you can. They are very nice indeed. Come, sit in here with me in the back of this Jaguar and we shall have one with tomato and fillet of beef on one on our way to Notre Dame. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/113 "2003-09-02T11:49:45Z")
While agreeing that American pronunciations are certainly not ideal reproductions of the original pronunciations (especially where the words have been transmitted mainly through written means, rarther than oral means), I have to agree with the OP that there seems to be a British tendency to re-interpret pronunciations as if the word followed the original spelling rules, but British rules of pronunciation. I’ve seen “Don Quixote” listed with both pronunciations, and I’ve heard it pronounced the “Quick-zit” way. :fillet" may be good British, but I think they’re the only ones to use that pronunciation in the world. Ditto for “schedule”. I watched a “60 Minutes” report on the BBC, where they decreed that the correct pronunciation of the composer’s name was “Rim-skee Kor-SAH-kov”, rather than “KOR-sah-kov”. I was confused, until I came across a passage in one of C.S. Forester’s novels, where he says of a British naval officer that “He did not condescend to pronounce it in the French fashion”. An American wouldn’t view it as condescension. In fact, with a country made up of a jumble of languages, it would be hard to institute pronunciation of “La Jolla” as anything but the original Spanish, or “Baton Rouge” as any other way than the French pronunciation. Even Induan names that you would tend to pronounce differently because of the weird orthography used in recording them – like “Nunda” in upastate New York – are pronounced in the correct fashion (“Nun-day”, not “Nun-duh”). Sure, you can find lots of cases where Americansd, unfamiliar with foreign pronunciation, have produced glaring or even hilarious mispronunciations. But the point of the OP is, I think, that the British seem to alter pronunciations, whereas Americans generally try to follow the original. ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/114 "2003-09-02T12:07:41Z")
**CalMeacham** > [@](#): > > I watched a “60 Minutes” report on the BBC, where they decreed that the correct pronunciation of the composer’s name was “Rim-skee Kor-SAH-kov”, rather than “KOR-sah-kov”. I don’t know how the composer’s name is correctly pronounced, but you have to be careful with Russian names. In Russian words, one syllable is stressed and it is not always the one which seems natural to English speakers. For example, I was surprised to discover recently that the correct pronunciation of the famous Russian/American novelist’s name is Vla_di_mir Na_bo_kov ( I had always pronounced it as _Vla_dimir _Na_bokov). ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/115 "2003-09-02T13:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\* > I watched a “60 Minutes” report on the BBC, where they decreed that the correct pronunciation of the composer’s name was “Rim-skee Kor-SAH-kov”, rather than “KOR-sah-kov”. > > \*\* Duh … I was brought up to pronounce it “Rip-me COR-sets-off” … :smack: 😉 Julie ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/116 "2003-09-02T13:14:41Z")
> [@](#): > > In Russian words, one syllable is stressed and it is not always the one which seems natural to English speakers. As used to great effect by Bond villains: “I haf been expecting you, Mees_ter_ Bond…”. This shift of stress is a very simple way of faking a reasonably convincing Russian accent, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/117 "2003-09-02T13:48:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\*“fillet” may be good British, but I think they’re the only ones to use that pronunciation in the world. Ditto for “schedule”. \*\* You would be wrong in that thought. Well unless NZ and Aus are not considered part of the world. ---
**Author:** ![mogiaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mogiaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mogiaw)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/118 "2003-09-02T14:01:50Z")
On the Quikzit debate, my da was in Madrid at, (I think) the Quixote Museum (maybe there’s no such place and it was just a gallery) but it was some tour with an exhibit about Don Quixote and the tourguide pronounced it Don “Key-Shot”. So der. BTW anyone know the “correct” pronunciation of Peugeot, is it “pere-jeo”??? mogi ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/119 "2003-09-02T14:03:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by calm kiwi \* > \*\*Well unless NZ and Aus are not considered part of the world. \*\* Is that a trick question? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bifar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bifar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bifar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406/120 "2003-09-02T14:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I was confused, until I came across a passage in one of C.S. Forester’s novels, where he says of a British naval officer that “He did not condescend to pronounce it in the French fashion”. An American wouldn’t view it as condescension. Actually I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. I think maybe it is a cultural thing. In the olden days it was probably seen as anti-British or some such to pronounce things overly foreign-like. (Especially French.) These days it is seen as a bit pretentious or high-falutin to say ‘pah-sta’ or ‘Paree’. On the other hand, from watching that bastion of cultural reality, _Frasier_, I get the impression that it’s a mark of American poshness or intelligence to pronounce foreign words properly. Another thing I’ve just thought of is that maybe British accents have a tendency to stretch the vowels and create diphthongs, whereas American accents don’t. (Or is that pants?) Lots of European languages have purer vowels and no diphthongs, so it may be easier for someone with an American accent to adapt the word while keeping it closer to the original translation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pronunciation-of-foreign-words/198406.md?page=7)