# British pub names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494 "2004-02-16T15:37:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/21 "2004-02-17T12:37:59Z")
There aren’t any laws about what pubs can be called. THis is actually a bone of contention in England. Many pubs are used as local landmarks and roads etc are named after them (eg The Nag’s Head Rd in North London, THe swan in Tottenham etc, not to mention the Swiss Cottage). What had been happening is that these pubs were falling into the hands of chains who imposed their own Brand Name on them eg “rat and Parrot”. They were able to do this with no regard to local tradition or heritage. Thankfully it seems to have stopped (people didn’t like it). JD Wetherspoons are a comapny that are opening brand new pubs, and they can be quite imaginative with the name - usually reflecting either the local are or the buildings previous use. Dreadful dives inside though. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/22 "2004-02-17T12:39:48Z")
BTW The “Black Boy” pubs are named for Charles I and were a royalist statement. (He was dark complexioned hence the nick name) ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/23 "2004-02-17T12:52:18Z")
Where does the \*\*arms \*\* bit come from? eg Cricketers Arms, Bristol Arms, Maquarie Arms, Bath Arms, Newport Arms, … ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/24 "2004-02-17T12:56:25Z")
> [@Ezstrete](#): > > The pubs carry “House Names” names as a tradition. > That’s why the name"dirty dozen" became obsolete when the closed shoe prevented counting above ten.--------the title"Dirty Seven" just didn’t have the proper ring to it. What closed shoe? Forgive my ignorance but I’d like to know what this is all about. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/25 "2004-02-17T13:01:26Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > Where does the \*\*arms \*\* bit come from? > > eg Cricketers Arms, Bristol Arms, Maquarie Arms, Bath Arms, Newport Arms, … Many pubs were owned by local landowners and as such would display the coat of arms of the owner. Alternatively they were owned by a guild eg Tailors arms, Skinners Arms, Carpenters Arms etc which would display the Coat of Arms of the Guild. The Rose and crown is also a heraldic device. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/26 "2004-02-17T13:06:27Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Many pubs are used as local landmarks and roads etc are named after them (eg The Nag’s Head Rd in North London, THe swan in Tottenham etc, not to mention the Swiss Cottage). Plus The Angel, Islington, and possibly Elephant and Castle. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/27 "2004-02-17T13:09:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > What closed shoe? Forgive my ignorance but I’d like to know what this is all about. I agree. What on earth does that mean? I’ve never heard the phrase, and all that google gives me about it is fetish sites. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/28 "2004-02-17T13:14:09Z")
Ooh, hang on a minute… I wonder if it’s a typo: they meant to type “closed shop” - i.e. union regulations - would prevent people counting to 12 or something. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/29 "2004-02-17T13:24:02Z")
One pub name which is relatively common all over the country is ‘The Marquis of Granby’; otherwise known as John Manners, this fine gentleman was Commander-in-Chief of the British army in the mid eighteenth century. After the Battle of Warburg he bought pubs for all his disabled non-commissioned officers. His generosity ruined him however, and he died in 1770 leaving debts of £37,000. \*“What conquest now will Britain boast, Or where displays her banners? Alas, in Granby she has lost True courage and good manners”. \* ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/30 "2004-02-17T13:26:18Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Ooh, hang on a minute… I wonder if it’s a typo: they meant to type “closed shop” - i.e. union regulations - would prevent people counting to 12 or something. I’m guessing its this: how high can you count if you can only use your fingers? Now how high can you count if you are wearing _sandals_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/31 "2004-02-17T13:32:39Z")
Time for my pub joke A man walks into the " George and Dragon" to be confronted by a very fierce and ugly woman behind the bar. She asks in a very aggressive tone " What do you want" and he replies " Can I speak to George please ?" ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/32 "2004-02-17T13:37:29Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Plus The Angel, Islington, and possibly Elephant and Castle. Don’t get people started on the origins of Elephant and Castle - it will turn ugly I tells ya. People _have views_ about this. Incidentally the last Hangman in Britain - Albert Pierrepoint - had a pub called The Happy Struggler, universally known as the Happy Strangler. I am also baffled by the “shoe” thing. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/33 "2004-02-17T14:27:16Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Incidentally the last Hangman in Britain - Albert Pierrepoint - had a pub called The Happy Struggler, universally known as the Happy Strangler. Wasn’t it “Help the Poor Struggler?” ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/34 "2004-02-17T14:31:59Z")
A quick google proves you right. THis what happens if you spend too much time INSIDE pubs. Incidentally I came accross this site. This is very wrong indeed. It’s like a fan site. [http://www.pierrepoint.co.uk/albert2.htm](http://www.pierrepoint.co.uk/albert2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![wakimika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@wakimika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wakimika)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494/35 "2004-02-17T17:14:12Z")
Thanks everyone, great stuff. I was following the links and I found out the British Royal Mail issued a set of pub sign [stamps](http://www.royalmail.com:80/portal/rm/shop?catId=9300091&pageType=Others&pageId=shp_prddetails&product=AP228) last year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-pub-names/229494.md?page=1)