# British Royal Family- Prince/Princess or not **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397 "2013-07-13T13:16:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/1 "2013-07-13T13:16:09Z")
This [chart](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/07/12/world/the-royal-line-of-succession.html?_r=0)was in the New York Times yesterday. It cleverly shows the line of succession to the British throne. But it made me wonder why Prince Charles’ and Prince Andrews’ children are Prince/Princess, but Princess Anne’s and Prince Edward’s are not? Prince Edward’s children are Lady and Viscount, but Princess Anne’s don’t appear to have a title at all, i.e., they’re not \*of \*something. Bonus points: Why is Prince Edward’s son called Viscount _Severn_? ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/2 "2013-07-13T13:19:55Z")
Prince Edward and his wife made a decision that they didn’t want to burden their children with the titles of “Prince” and “Princess,” but rather [style them as the children of a earl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James,_Viscount_Severn#Titles_and_styles). “Viscount Severn” is one of Prince Edward’s titles, and it’s given as a courtesy title to his eldest son. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/3 "2013-07-13T13:27:32Z")
Princess Anne and her then-husband Mark Phillips decided not to burden their children with any titles. Phillips also turned down the customary peerage (Earldom?) that comes with marrying a Monarch’s daughter. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/4 "2013-07-13T13:56:06Z")
Holy cow. I didn’t know that was an option. Someone could burden me with the title of Princess. It would be okay. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/5 "2013-07-13T14:14:19Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Holy cow. I didn’t know that was an option. > > **Someone could burden me with the title of Princess. It would be okay.** But w/ great power, you may have heard, comes great responsibility. Using a title means working for The Firm and being under their thumb even more than your blood already does. Imagine a company that can fire you but that you still work for in some capacity for the rest of your life. The Queen can wholly disavow someone in her family but that won’t turn off the public and media scrutiny that follows that person once they’re in the limelight. They become a commodity that has to protect itself. Fun fun fun. Maybe you could just change your name to Princess? Hell, go for broke, become Queen ThelmaLou. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/6 "2013-07-13T14:47:06Z")
Here’s what I’m curious about. On battle dress uniforms there’s a place on the front for a name badge or patch with the wearer’s last name imprinted. So, on Prince Harry’s badge does it say Montbatten-Windsor or Wales? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/7 "2013-07-13T14:48:08Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Holy cow. I didn’t know that was an option. > > Someone could burden me with the title of Princess. It would be okay. I, for one, welcome the rule of Princess ThelmaLou. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/8 "2013-07-13T14:52:46Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Here’s what I’m curious about. On battle dress uniforms there’s a place on the front for a name badge or patch with the wearer’s last name imprinted. So, on Prince Harry’s badge does it say Montbatten-Windsor or Wales? Wales. Same with William. Pic [here](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=prince+harry+name+badge+wales&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=VHN&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=umjhUYjjFcXP0AXmyYGQCg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=743#facrc=_&imgrc=-Zu97s6r0N5bAM%3A%3BNDcQXp7JmkQh5M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww3.pictures.zimbio.com%252Fgi%252FPrince%252BWilliam%252BPrince%252BHarry%252BVisit%252BRAF%252BShawbury%252BjnfUBDudPy4l.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.motforum.com%252Fphpbb%252Fviewtopic.php%253Fp%253D333069%3B594%3B357). I suppose that William’s should probably say “Cambridge” now, but I bet he hasn’t bothered changing it. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/9 "2013-07-13T14:52:52Z")
> [@Ace309](#): > > Prince Edward and his wife made a decision that they didn’t want to burden their children with the titles of “Prince” and “Princess,” but rather [style them as the children of a earl](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James,_Viscount_Severn#Titles_and_styles). “Viscount Severn” is one of Prince Edward’s titles, and it’s given as a courtesy title to his eldest son. And since the Queen never actually issued letters patent to the contrary they’re still legally “HRH Prince James of Wessex” and “HRH Princess Louise of Wessex”, they just have their grandmother’s unwritten permission to use lesser styles that they’re entitled to. Same deal with Camilla; legally she is the Princess of Wales, she just uses one of her other titles. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/10 "2013-07-13T15:19:29Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > And since the Queen never actually issued letters patent to the contrary they’re still legally “HRH Prince James of Wessex” and “HRH Princess Louise of Wessex”, they just have their grandmother’s unwritten permission to use lesser styles that they’re entitled to. Indeed. The only written thing seems to be [this](http://www.royal.gov.uk/LatestNewsandDiary/Pressreleases/2007/NAMESANNOUNCEDFORVISCOUNTSEVERN.aspx) press release a few days after the birth announcing the boy’s given names. It refers to him straight off the bat as Viscount Severn. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/11 "2013-07-13T15:40:26Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Here’s what I’m curious about. On battle dress uniforms there’s a place on the front for a name badge or patch with the wearer’s last name imprinted. So, on Prince Harry’s badge does it say Montbatten-Windsor or Wales? Never mind. It’s Wales. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/12 "2013-07-13T17:41:25Z")
Is it Wales all the way down? ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/13 "2013-07-13T17:45:38Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I, for one, welcome the rule of Princess ThelmaLou. 🙂 I also welcome the ‘Her Benevolence’ and hope that this unworthy sycophant will be appointed to a minor functionary post. Perhaps ‘Follower of the Royal Shih-Tzu’ or ‘Attendant of the Royal Bath’. “Would Milady prefer to bathe in Mare’s Milk or Virgin’s Blood today?” ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/14 "2013-07-13T18:28:29Z")
By virtue of King George V letters patent which are still in effect, the monarch’s children are all authorised to use the style Prince/Princess of the UK as are grandchildren in the _male_ line. Which is why Princess Margaret’s and Prince Annes’ children were/are not Princes/Princesses. The Monarch can make exceptions and grant a such a title. Charles was given a title at birth and so will the forthcoming Royal Baby. Prince Philip was also made a Prince by his wife…he was merely a non Royal Duke before this (ignoring his surrendered Greek and Dane titles). A lack of Royal titles does not preclude you from being a Royal family member or taking on Royal duties…Zara Phillips takes on Royal Duties, her brother does not. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/15 "2013-07-13T21:31:55Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > I also welcome the ‘Her Benevolence’ and hope that this unworthy sycophant will be appointed to a minor functionary post. Perhaps ‘Follower of the Royal Shih-Tzu’ or ‘Attendant of the Royal Bath’. > > “Would Milady prefer to bathe in Mare’s Milk or Virgin’s Blood today?” Careful, there. It starts all nice like that but often it’s just a slippery slope until you’re required to lisp and it becomes “What do you want a hundred virginth for?” or “Where am I going to find a brain at thith time of night?” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/16 "2013-07-14T01:21:51Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > I also welcome the ‘Her Benevolence’ and hope that this unworthy sycophant will be appointed to a minor functionary post. Perhaps ‘Follower of the Royal Shih-Tzu’ or ‘Attendant of the Royal Bath’. > > “Would Milady prefer to bathe in Mare’s Milk or Virgin’s Blood today?” Surely it’s “virgins’ blood,” plural, unless Milady wants a rather shallow bath. The average virgin barely contains enough blood to flush a low-flow toilet. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/17 "2013-07-14T03:54:17Z")
Am I detecting a groundswell, or is it just those nachos I had for lunch? > [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I, for one, welcome the rule of Princess ThelmaLou. 🙂 I promise to be supportive but firm. Like a Sealy Posturepedic. > [@Philliam](#): > > I also welcome the ‘Her Benevolence’ and hope that this unworthy sycophant will be appointed to a minor functionary post. Perhaps ‘Follower of the Royal Shih-Tzu’ or ‘Attendant of the Royal Bath’. According to the job description, you start out as Follower of the Royal Shit-Tzu’s Shit and work your way UP to Follower of the Royal Shih-Tzu. > [@](#): > > “Would Milady prefer to bathe in Mare’s Milk or Virgin’s Blood today?” I would like to bathe in green tea WITH a mare and a virgin. Thanks for asking. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/18 "2013-07-14T20:13:08Z")
When Princess Margaret got married her husband was created Viscount Snowdon to avoid the appalling likelihood that her children would Mr & Mrs. Time seems to have modified this viewpoint and now the Great and the Good seem more mellow on this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/19 "2013-07-14T20:33:26Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Am I detecting a groundswell, or is it just those nachos I had for lunch? I’d have that swelling looked at if I were you. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I promise to be supportive but firm. Like a Sealy Posturepedic. You’ve won me over. Perhaps an official name change is in order? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397/20 "2013-07-14T22:05:56Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Bonus points: Why is Prince Edward’s son called Viscount _Severn_? The Severn is the longest river in the UK. Presumably the title relates to that. I couldn’t think of another earldom etc named for a river, but I see that Anthony Eden was the Earl of Avon, so presumably it happens. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-royal-family-prince-princess-or-not/663397.md?page=2)