# British Sniper Sets Record **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 7, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640 "2010-05-07T15:50:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/21 "2010-05-07T21:11:54Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > deserves the record for what? – 3 very skillful shots, or 3 very lucky coincidences? It hardly matters. He set up the shots, pulled the trigger, and made 3 direct hits. Coincidence or not, that’s what happened, and he deserves the record. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/22 "2010-05-07T21:13:21Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Regardless, the rifle manufacturers themselves say they were “lucky shots” — do people get records for being lucky? > > And why would someone want a record associated with the death of a human being who just happens to have different viewpoints to you? The issue of skill is, to me, separate from the morality of the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/23 "2010-05-07T21:15:40Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > do people get records for being lucky? I think luck plays a role in most records. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/24 "2010-05-07T21:16:48Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > We get it - there’s luck involved. Whenever I shoot someone from across a map on a computer game I know there was luck involved. That doesn’t stop it from being awesome. > > Why do you seem to have sour grapes about this? Hmmm…possibly because I dislike the idea of glorifying the killing of another human being from the furthest distance possible. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/25 "2010-05-07T21:18:32Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > The issue of skill is, to me, separate from the morality of the circumstances. The issue of skill disappeared the moment he took shots almost double the rifle’s range limits. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/26 "2010-05-07T21:20:04Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > The issue of skill disappeared the moment he took shots almost double the rifle’s range limits. That’s like saying that I have the same chance of getting a hole-in-one as Tiger Woods. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/27 "2010-05-07T21:20:08Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Hmmm…possibly because I dislike the idea of glorifying the killing of another human being from the furthest distance possible. Concur. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/28 "2010-05-07T21:24:32Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Hmmm…possibly because I dislike the idea of glorifying the killing of another human being from the furthest distance possible. Can we drag the Nazis into this one? Or can we settle for [evil pre-War Japanese](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contest_to_kill_100_people_using_a_sword)? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/29 "2010-05-07T21:27:37Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Hmmm…possibly because I dislike the idea of glorifying the killing of another human being from the furthest distance possible. So, if he’d been hitting paper targets, you’d have no objection to giving him the record? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/30 "2010-05-07T21:28:33Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Hmmm…possibly because I dislike the idea of glorifying the killing of another human being from the furthest distance possible. I suspect that if you or a family member were the person about to be killed by that human being’s machine gun, you’d be a little more comfortable with the idea. There is nothing wrong with admiring extraordinary acheivement, especially when it exists to save lives. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/31 "2010-05-07T21:28:35Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > The issue of skill disappeared the moment he took shots almost double the rifle’s range limits. No disrespect intended, partner, but that’s an absolutely irrational statement. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/32 "2010-05-07T21:39:20Z")
Also, the ability to have someone you can put into place and rely on to make very accurate shots under difficult circumstances, while remaining undetected, is much too valuable to ever eliminate. A good sniper is a significant advantage both tactically and strategically. Thus, in any military organization involving foot troops and ranged weapons, the existence of a sniper is necessary and inevitable. Given that, I see no moral difficulties in acknowledging skill that sets one marksman even higher than others. It’s a skill that exists at the furthest extreme of concentration and physical human abilities, is remarkable in itself, and deserves to be acknowledged. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/33 "2010-05-07T21:39:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, if he’d been hitting paper targets, you’d have no objection to giving him the record? I’d have less objection about him claiming it. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I suspect that if you or a family member were the person about to be killed by that human being’s machine gun, you’d be a little more comfortable with the idea. And had he missed because he was pushing the limits of his skillset, and my family member had died, should I then blame it on bad luck? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There is nothing wrong with admiring extraordinary acheivement, especially when it exists to save lives. There’s got to be something morally wrong with celebrating something that involves the death of another human being, surely? > [@Ogre](#): > > No disrespect intended, partner, but that’s an absolutely irrational statement. As I’ve already pointed out, not according to the rifle manufacturer. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/34 "2010-05-07T21:40:32Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Christ. Three full seconds of lag time over that distance between shooting the bullet and hitting the target. That’s an incredible level of skill. Damn three seconds lag time means you are aiming over 120 feet above your target. That’s just absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/35 "2010-05-07T21:49:03Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Damn three seconds lag time means you are aiming over 120 feet above your target. That’s just absurd. That’s a good point. Wouldn’t that mean that, at some point, the line of sight, even through a scope, would coincide with the position of the your barrel? In other words, wouldn’t your barrel (especially a long barrel with the added bulk of a suppressor on the end) intrude upon the reticle? Or do you not change your scope position that much, and simply aim at a point, through the sight, 120 feet above your target (aim at empty air, IOW)? ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/36 "2010-05-07T21:54:14Z")
There’s always some luck involved. Yes, of course people get credit for a lucky shot. And frankly, the fact that he did it three times in a row means that either 1) he was astronomically lucky, or 2) they’re all just being humble about it, and it was really a remarkable display of pure skill. I vote the latter, because he has the argument of intent to support him. IOW, he did exactly what he intended and prepared to do. If someone does that, especially several times in a row, I call it skill. Occam’s Razor and all that. Let me guess: you’re Canadian, aren’t you, **ivan**? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/37 "2010-05-07T21:55:00Z")
Part of the luck is with the 3 second lag, it is easy for the target to move away from your shot. Part of the luck is a stray bit of breeze. Part of the luck is the round you are firing (even from the factory, not all rounds are created equal). However, lining it up, calculating the drop, raising the elevation, and making all other adjustments - well done. I have no problem celebrating that shot the same way we celebrate flying aces. While I would love to not live a world to celebrate this, as long as we have war we will have snipers - and we might as well recognize them. Of course, this is coming from someone whose son wrote his biography report on Carlos Hathcock, so I might be a little biased. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/38 "2010-05-07T22:00:01Z")
As my scattergun (heh) approach to this thread continues (I’m in and out, mowing the lawn, etc.), I would also point out that he accomplished this feat while protecting his comrades from being ambushed and killed, which, IMO, lends a decisive moral positive to an incident which, again, IMO, needed none anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/39 "2010-05-07T22:00:51Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > That’s a good point. Wouldn’t that mean that, at some point, the line of sight, even through a scope, would coincide with the position of the your barrel? In other words, wouldn’t your barrel (especially a long barrel with the added bulk of a suppressor on the end) intrude upon the reticle? > > Or do you not change your scope position that much, and simply aim at a point, through the sight, 120 feet above your target (aim at empty air, IOW)? You aim at empty air. You set your scope for a specific distance (mine are set to 300 feet only). However, my scope sits higher than the barrel, so by doing that I am shooting at a angle. At 100 yards / 300 feet my scope and the bullet path link up. After that, the round keeps rising then starts to drop as it loses velocity. Before that, it will hit below my aim. Scopes have all those extra lines in them so that you can aim high or low as needed. VERY interesting, and complicated stuff. You can get an iPhone App to help you though! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640/40 "2010-05-07T22:01:36Z")
Good drills, that man! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/british-sniper-sets-record/538640.md?page=3)